Any good mk4 nat. Mappers in lancashire?

[David P]

If you plan to increase the boost, you may regret not buying this?

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?355654-New-R154-Heavy-Duty-Conversion-Kit-Plug-amp-Play-for-MKIV-Supra&p=4308982#post4308982

[herbiemercman]

Hi Noz, Looks like i had an emange blue fitted and the initial performance, in all departments were superb, staring,tick over, and performance.

Before i try to reach my original mapper, the one which sideways dan had, like me, at "Rocket Dog Racing".

Can you advise me on a mapper who would be conversant with my software package? I do not mind having to travel and you rightly say it has to be worth it in the end, obviously i would not like having to return for any post MAP issues, all be it can there be teething problems wit MAPS?

Changing the subject i don't think you high-jacked my posting, but it is good to see members be forgiving, and "Frank" like you have with Adam, i do not know him but i just take people as i find them.

I will be grateful for any info you can supply me, on Mapping, not Adam.lol. Herbie.

[herbiemercman]

Hi Noz, Looks like i had an emange blue fitted and the initial performance, in all departments were superb, staring,tick over, and performance.

Before i try to reach my original mapper, the one which sideways dan had, like me, at "Rocket Dog Racing".

Can you advise me on a mapper, (Tuner), who would be conversant with my software package? I do not mind having to travel and you rightly say it has to be worth it in the end, obviously i would not like having to return for any post MAP issues, all be it can there be teething problems wit MAPS?

Changing the subject i don't think you high-jacked my posting, but it is good to see members being forgiving, and "Frank" like you have with Adam, i do not know him but i just take people as i find them.

 

I will be grateful for any info you can supply me, on Mapping, not Adam.lol. Herbie.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Hi Noz, Looks like i had an emange blue fitted and the initial performance, in all departments were superb, staring,tick over, and performance.

Before i try to reach my original mapper, the one which sideways dan had, like me, at "Rocket Dog Racing".

Can you advise me on a mapper, (Tuner), who would be conversant with my software package? I do not mind having to travel and you rightly say it has to be worth it in the end, obviously i would not like having to return for any post MAP issues, all be it can there be teething problems wit MAPS?

Changing the subject i don't think you high-jacked my posting, but it is good to see members being forgiving, and "Frank" like you have with Adam, i do not know him but i just take people as i find them.

 

I will be grateful for any info you can supply me, on Mapping, not Adam.lol. Herbie.

[David P]

You have asked advice for the most trusted Engine Tuners, alternatively however, you have chosen to search for the least trusted Mappers.

 

Do you want a proper & safe tune, or would you prefer to have your engine blown up on the cheap?

 

 

 

P.S. If the Mappers you have asked can't or won't work with your piggyback, give Engine Tuner Dan Turner a call at Advanced Motorsport and Engineering. He is based at Daventry in Northants and has a very good hub-dyno suite at Silverstone.

Edited December 20, 2019 by David P (see edit history)

[sidewaysdan]

As David said. Give dan a bell he tuned one of my skylines and I was very pleased with the outcome. And he’s a good bloke

[herbiemercman]

Many thanks David & sideways, I will contact Tuner Dan Turner, at Advanced Motorsport and Tuning.

My situation is that i had an NAT conversion with "Rocket Dog Racing" the spec was circa 400 BHP, running 0.8bar boost with standard injectors, single turbo, and Emange Blue ECU piggy back etc. It was a good job and great performance, however the head gasket failed after 3 years, had car from new with 40K on clock.

I was advised by several club members to fit a thicker gasket, 1.6mm instead of stock at 0.6mm, they stated it would not affect the compression ratio by much and also the BHP, as well as improving the longevity of the gasket which is a big job which i do not want to carry out again.

I noticed the reduction in performance after a few weeks and was advised by a few members i just needed to have the MAP checked and restore the performance? I have also been advised that the BHP could have been reduced by as much as 60 BHP? and to recover the performance bigger injectors and more boost would be required? I feel this is the correct way forward and this is some thing i want to consult Tuner Dan on. Herbie.

Edited December 21, 2019 by herbiemercman (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

What is the spec of your engine herbie? Complete NA or a mixture of NA & TT parts? What size are your injectors?

[David P]

And don't forget about your W58 chocolate-box?

Edited December 20, 2019 by David P (see edit history)

[Guigsy]

dan did my car too. runs real well.

[herbiemercman]

Hi Frank, My NA was stock from new, including the injectors.

 

The following was carried out by "Rocket Dog Racing" (Craig Allard),a great guy and a friend, he had some work difficulties for a while but now he is well on his way back up and i believe he is quite friendly with Paul, Whifbits.

 

My Spec: was what he calls stage 1.With the stock w58 box, stock head gasket, and stock injectors.

The replacement parts:

Stage 2 street clutch, T61/7068 14 Turbo, 3 inch custom down pipe, 50mm external waste gate, 2JZ GE 14 Manifold, Greedy Emange ECU software, Toyota 4 Runner Diz Cap, Full Front Intercooler, NGK BCR8ES Spark Plugs.

 

The performance spec gave boost at 0.9 bar, circa 400 BHP and max speed 172 MPH.

The performance was great until the replacement 1.6mm thick gasket replaced the stock 0.6 mm gasket,which had blown.

The performance is still very good, starting, tick over, acceleration up up to 70 / 80MPH, but beyond this speed it just builds, not as good as before.

 

I am trying to establish how i get back to my 400BHP as i have it on good authority that i could have lost as much as 60BHP with the thicker gasket.

 

The big question is: Can i get back with a re-MAP, or will i need to look at bigger injectors and increasing the boost to 2.5 bar, i am not sure of this much higher boost pressure and i am not sure the current turbo could achieve this? or can the pressure release valve be adjusted?

 

Finaly Craig told me that my stock exhaust system including the silencer, which i wanted, was reducing the spooling due to its resistance being more than the exhaust systems they use. I will be fitting a replacement exhaust in the near future prior to the re-MAP.

Sorry this is a bit of a long posting Frank and hope you can give your valued opinion. Herbie.

Edited December 21, 2019 by herbiemercman (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

Hi Herbie, no worries about the post. Just I heads up though, I can't give you specific on NA/T. You would need someone with better knowledge than I but I can run through certain technical details with you.

 

For NA/T and no particular order I would be chatting with David P obviously, Sidewaysdan (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/member.php?18720-sidewaysdan) has a lovely NA/T and has spoke to you in this thread, Style (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/member.php?32567-Style), Parm_93 has or had an NA/T stroker build (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/member.php?44747-Parm_93), Mike2JZ is very clued up too (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/member.php?30620-Mike2JZ) and Josh42 (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/member.php?30942-Josh42) had a very expensive build

 

Fitting the thicker head gasket will have lowered your compression, not sure by how much as I'd need other info to figure it out but even then it's only a rough idea. Whilst HP will be affected it will be the drop in torque that you notice. By lowering the compression it is possibly making your car seem slower than before. As compression has changed I would recommend a remap no matter what.

 

Any thoughts on using a different ECU? Nothing as expensive as a standalone, something like the AEM FIC. This would give you more scope to appropriate mappers as David mentioned and also allow the mapper to make finer adjustments as each map is 21X17 on the AEM compared to 17x17 on the GReddy. You could also store two maps on the FIC, one for low boost and one for high boost if that would be of interest to you?

 

David also mentioned your W58, you need to keep in mind that it's quite possibly at its limits. Again, mapping should help extend the life of the box if you don't want to look at an R154 swap.

 

When you say stock injectors, NA or swapped to TT? If TT, JDM or UKDM? Rough rule of thumb is to equate 1cc to 1hp. This will also give you an idea of the percentage your injectors are running at.

 

Regarding your exhaust, cats will slow and limit flow. If you don't want the extra noise of a straight through exhaust maybe a sports cat could be a good alternative or something like the Tanabe exhaust. If it doesn't bolt straight to the NA it could be made to fit and it would be a nice alternative. I know a lot of TT guys like them for keeping things discreet.

 

I wouldn't consider upping boost to changing turbos at this stage unless it was something you were already considering.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Frank Bullitt
Links added. (see edit history)

[Mike2JZ]

I did try to warn you that putting a 1mm larger headgasket would have some knock on affects on your tune.

 

As you now have less dynamic compression compared to previously, you will have to either gain back some efficiency & performance via adding boost, or having a more aggressive timing map or both. Only a tuner using a dyno will be able to dial this in for you as it can be difficult to tell slight changes in torque/peak power whilst driving on the road.

 

If you keep your boost the same as it is currently and have your timing increased, then you will likely not need larger injectors. If you start increasing boost, then for sure you will need bigger injectors. Stock 2JZGE 330cc injectors are tiny, not much headroom for lots of boost.

 

Be aware that if you want to increase the boost, then you will need larger injectors, uprated fuel pump & ideally some engine protections via your ECU. At minimum I'd recommend having a knock control system & some sort of overboost protection.

[herbiemercman]

Many thanks, Frank and Mike, It is much appreciated. In some ways i wished i had just replaced the stock gasket 0.6mm with the same, BUT i was understandably concerned about having another gasket failure, as the changing of the last head gasket was very frustrating and expensive, i was advised to fit the thicker gasket and informed by Conceptua it would have much better longevity, which is correct, BUT i was not aware until post the job, that i would have dire performance issues. Can you guess just how much BHP and Torque i may have lost?

 

However i am where i am, and for a while, i thought a re-MAP would resolve my problem, and i am still not sure just how much BHP i could recover with it.?

 

May be the ignition could be a little retarded as we could not start the engine after fitting the new head gasket, we had marked the dizi in the clamp with "tipex" but a member told us we could be a notch out due to having taken the cam shafts off, we tried it and it started and ran superbly, it is still the same, BUT reduced torque and speed. Is it worth advancing the ignition a touch?

 

I have also just ordered a competition exhaust system to replace the stock system and stock silencer which Craig at Rocket Dog told me was reducing the spooling. Herbie.

Edited December 22, 2019 by herbiemercman (see edit history)

[Mike2JZ]

Many thanks, Frank and Mike, It is much appreciated. In some ways i wished i had just replaced the stock gasket 0.6mm with the same, BUT i was understandably concerned about having another gasket failure, as the changing of the last head gasket was very frustrating and expensive, i was advised to fit the thicker gasket and informed by Conceptua it would have much better longevity, which is correct, BUT i was not aware until post the job, that i would have dire performance issues. Can you guess just how much BHP and Torque i may have lost?

 

However i am where i am, and for a while, i thought a re-MAP would resolve my problem, and i am still not sure just how much BHP i could recover with it.?

 

May be the ignition could be a little retarded as we could not start the engine after fitting the new head gasket, we had marked the dizi in the clamp with "tipex" but a member told us we could be a notch out due to having taken the cam shafts off, we tried it and it started and ran superbly, it is still the same, BUT reduced torque and speed. Is it worth advancing the ignition a touch?

 

I have also just ordered a competition exhaust system to replace the stock system and stock silencer which Craig at Rocket Dog told me was reducing the spooling. Herbie.

 

I mean no offence to Conceptua, but they are a part seller not a supra tuning garage. Sounds like they gave you the answer you wanted to hear in order to complete the sale. A quick phonecall to either SRD or Whifbitz and they could have warned you about your proposed changes and what would be required to complement it. Furthermore, you talk about head gasket longevity and then stick on a chinese conceptua headgasket rather than oem...nice.

 

No one can tell you how much power you have lost & how much you can gain from a remap. No point picking a number from thin air and guessing based on how it feels.

 

As far as I'm aware you have never posted a dyno graph from your old setup, so you have no baseline to work from. Without a baseline, how are you expecting to track future changes? Ideally you need to find a tuner/dyno that you can revisit so the dyno equipment remains consistent, from there any changes you make you can compare your old dyno graphs to new ones and see where your gains have been had.

 

I applaud you for doing your own DIY as thats the best way to learn, but it sounds like you are starting to get in a bit to the deep end currently. My advise would be to find a reputable tuner that can check over all the systems on the cars you have played around with (such as compression test, cam timing, distributor timing, boost leaks, exhaust leaks etc etc). Once that sanity check is over and the green light has been given, get them to tune the car to a level you are comfortable with, and then finally you will have a baseline to work from.

 

Or you can take your distributor as it now, advance it as much as it will go and the car will rip. Just don't cry when you melt a piston eventually.

[herbiemercman]

Hi Mike, Thanks for the info, it is not easy to listen to many well meaning members and then decide what to do, what i am learning is engine tuning is far from straight forward, but it is difficult to not get involved. You are for example at the mercy of buying a knock sensor for £25 from Honk Kong which works fine, or buying one from a more reputable source or the OEM for £170. The Conceptua parts are very good, i agree their tech info should be ignored.

With reference to the ign timing, what does rip mean?

My way forward will be involving Paul at Whifbitz and this should get me back on track of how to return me to my good performance which i enjoyed prior to me unwittingly fitting a thicker head gasket. Thanks for your help. Herbie.

[David P]

Stop fretting, your engine will live longer now that it has compression better suited for 2JZ boosting.

 

A remap of the engine timing by an Engine Tuner with a dyno, would put the power back to whereabouts it ever was and with a tweak to the fuelling maybe even a bit more?

 

With OE injectors, the power that you thought it had may be wishful thinking, but now that you have lower compression, by fitting larger injectors you could instantly have a lot more.

 

The restraining factor is the W58 transmission.

[Mike2JZ]

Hi Mike, Thanks for the info, it is not easy to listen to many well meaning members and then decide what to do, what i am learning is engine tuning is far from straight forward, but it is difficult to not get involved. You are for example at the mercy of buying a knock sensor for £25 from Honk Kong which works fine, or buying one from a more reputable source or the OEM for £170. The Conceptua parts are very good, i agree their tech info should be ignored.

With reference to the ign timing, what does rip mean?

My way forward will be involving Paul at Whifbitz and this should get me back on track of how to return me to my good performance which i enjoyed prior to me unwittingly fitting a thicker head gasket. Thanks for your help. Herbie.

 

Rip = Car is fast.

[herbiemercman]

Hi David, Your post lifts me and makes me see that it may not take a lot to get some power and torque back.

 

When you have experienced the performance of an NAT conversion after owning an NA for 20 years you cannot just try to ignore just loosing 30% of the power. It has taken a lot of money to get to the Stage 1 NAT level and then the expense and frustration of replacing a cylinder head gasket in your drive way, and in the rain.

 

This Club and members like you and certain others, Mike and Frank,etc are a "God Send" for advice and information, not sure what people would do otherwise.

 

I will contact the right Tuners and get my situation sorted, and as far as i know to date i may have to travel.

Just a point, if i do end up with bigger injectors will it reduce my MPG?

 

With reference to the W58 i intend just nursing it. Herbie.

Edited December 23, 2019 by herbiemercman (see edit history)

[Mk4Gaz]

Just a point, if i do end up with bigger injectors will it reduce my MPG?

 

Not necessarily. The engine will only burn the fuel it needs, the rest returns back to the tank.

 

But, the key thing to note is, if you're worried about fuel consumption, you're driving the wrong car [emoji23]

 

 

[herbiemercman]

Hi Gaz, I have to agree, for years i had 20 MPG no matter how i drove the car, post NAT it dropped to 17 MPG, again no matter how i drove. I have to save up now so i can use it.lol. Herbie.

[Mk4Gaz]

Mine averages around 27mpg with normal driving, and the odd boot full of boost. That's with a big single and 600bhp.

 

I definitely think your map needs looking at!

 

 

[Mike2JZ]

Mine averages around 27mpg with normal driving, and the odd boot full of boost. That's with a big single and 600bhp.

 

I definitely think your map needs looking at!

 

/QUOTE]

 

He's running emange so unlikely there are any closed loop fuel control enabled, which will be hurting his mpg.

[Mk4Gaz]

He's running emange so unlikely there are any closed loop fuel control enabled, which will be hurting his mpg.

Yeah, true Mike [emoji1303]