Hybrid/highflow twin turbos VS small single turbo setup

[Rashed]

Hello ladies & gentlemen.

 

May I ask for some input and advice on a current situation I am in at the moment?

 

After purchasing my Supra TT6 over a year ago I went ahead and treated it to a BPU setup, which was all good as it made 365bhp at 1 bar and really livened up the car and has made it a pleasure to drive. Coming from a Chaser with a VVTi 1JZ and 3" Nur Spec R decatted system the Supra seemed very quiet and tone-less which I expected being a TT setup however I went ahead and swapped out the 3" Kakimoto system for a Whifbitz 4" single box system. This made the car louder but still didn't give me that strong JZ tone I wanted/missed which really takes away from the driving experience.

 

I initially wanted to go for a hybrid TT setup with an uprated fuel system and standalone ECU and chase the 500bhp mark so I could retain my active aero spoiler up front with an uprated sidemount intercooler BUT as time goes by I am wanting more and more of the 2JZ sound these cars have to offer by going for a single HOWEVER I don't want to lose the functionality of my active aero at all!

 

What do I do?

 

I'm not after crazy power, I want drivability and quick spool with strong power to redline and maybe some cams to improve midrange torque. I also want the sound which seems like a single would be the best option. Would an uprated SMIC be sufficient for a small single turbo setup producing anything between 500-600 bhp?

 

Any input would be much appreciated

[bayside_supra]

You could probably do a smaller precision turbo with a smic and get 500+ with very low spool. This would be more fun than hybrids imho

 

 

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Does your TT6 have VVT-i?

 

If you want a quick spooling set up you want a cast manifold and a small single with a Chris Wilson SMIC and a 40 profile tyre on the rear to help you put the power down.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[mellonman]

And more reliable hybrids don't tend to last in my experience

[Boyne]

When I went bpu over decade ago the hks type r front mount made huge difference , the standard intercooler gets heat soaked very quickly, not sure if whibitiz uprated side mount is much of advantage over stock, but it's rated up to 500hp.

I was hoping to go small single bw sxe257 this yr I just want little more then full bpu( 450hp) 500to 530hp with spool at 2k imo be great street set up., but there was no play whatsoever in my uk turbo s so will go standalone ecu and get it mapped parrell turbo.

[Rashed]

You could probably do a smaller precision turbo with a smic and get 500+ with very low spool. This would be more fun than hybrids imho

 

 

/QUOTE]

 

Yeah I'm thinking the same dude, so far the hybrid TT option is getting a big no from others that I have asked but my only real concern is would an uprated SMIC be able to cope with 500-600bhp as I want to avoid disabling the active aero spoiler.

 

Thanks for your input man

[Rashed]

Does your TT6 have VVT-i?

 

If you want a quick spooling set up you want a cast manifold and a small single with a Chris Wilson SMIC and a 40 profile tyre on the rear to help you put the power down.

 

Yeah mine is a later VVTi car, I've read many good things about the CW uprated SMIC. I will have a chat with him to discuss what power levels the intercooler is good for. Thanks for your input

[Rashed]

And more reliable hybrids don't tend to last in my experience

 

I've read on here somewhere that hybrids have failed and it is more cost effective to go single instead. It does put me off the hybrid setup a little.

[Rashed]

When I went bpu over decade ago the hks type r front mount made huge difference , the standard intercooler gets heat soaked very quickly, not sure if whibitiz uprated side mount is much of advantage over stock, but it's rated up to 500hp.

I was hoping to go small single bw sxe257 this yr I just want little more then full bpu( 450hp) 500to 530hp with spool at 2k imo be great street set up., but there was no play whatsoever in my uk turbo s so will go standalone ecu and get it mapped parrell turbo.

 

Avoiding going for a full FMIC at all cost atm. I too am not sure what the whiffbitz uprated SMIC is capable of but the CW uprated seems like a better option atm. Yeah like you I'm not after crazy power, anything over 500bhp with little lag would be perfect as a street car.

[Frank Bullitt]

Yeah mine is a later VVTi car, I've read many good things about the CW uprated SMIC. I will have a chat with him to discuss what power levels the intercooler is good for. Thanks for your input

 

No worries, if you remember to keep things simple and small you can't go wrong. Velocity not volume is the key to a fast spooling set up. I believe CW's intercoolers have supported up to 600hp quite happily as they are an extremely well engineered bespoke product. There is nothing comparable on the market.

[Rashed]

No worries, if you remember to keep things simple and small you can't go wrong. Velocity not volume is the key to a fast spooling set up. I believe CW's intercoolers have supported up to 600hp quite happily as they are an extremely well engineered bespoke product. There is nothing comparable on the market.

 

Right CW SMIC it is then, thanks for clearing that up for me!

 

This might be silly but how much should I budget for a small single build like this? Taking everything into consideration and doing it properly.

 

Thanks again!

[bayside_supra]

Depends how mad you wanna go really. I reckon you wouldn’t get any change out of £8k to do a reliable setup. It would be a completely different car once done though

 

 

 

[drift_bear]

I went pretty deep into the hybrid route on my last set up! Check my build thread on here and you’ll see.. It ran TTC and felt/pulled like a small single, these were the numbers I got

 

468 @ 1.35 bar with 465ftlbs - road fuel

528 @ 1.5 bar with 540ftlbs - meth mix (30%)

 

My hybrids were in the car for over 10 years and were still pulling well when I removed them and there was no sign of play or etc In them

[Scooter]

As drift_bear mentioned perhaps try TTC, you can install an ETTC switch, it may give you the noise you are after? It may be enough, or at least better until you upgrade other stuff?

[charlton]

I went pretty deep into the hybrid route on my last set up! Check my build thread on here and you’ll see.. It ran TTC and felt/pulled like a small single, these were the numbers I got

 

468 @ 1.35 bar with 465ftlbs - road fuel

528 @ 1.5 bar with 540ftlbs - meth mix (30%)

 

My hybrids were in the car for over 10 years and were still pulling well when I removed them and there was no sign of play or etc In them

 

They’re still going strong! But not in TTC and are at 1.1 bar... for now

[drift_bear]

They’re still going strong! But not in TTC and are at 1.1 bar... for now

 

Glad to hear they are still going strong bud! Just shows you how well they were built originally

[bayside_supra]

I personally think a single setup is more fun than the twins. Drive ability is possibly a little better on hybrids, but the theatre of a single is something worth paying for imo.

 

It’s so different though, the op should try and find someone with a setup like he is thinking so he can experience it.

 

When I drop big money on a new setup I want something completely different to what I had before. I’m guessing hybrids feel similar to the stock twins, just with a lot more power. Single will be a very different drive.

 

All just my opinion. There is no right or wrong way, just depends what the op wants the car to be.

 

 

 

[Rashed]

Yeah I think I need to go for a ride in a small single setup car to see what it feels like. Completely agree with the hybrid tt setup being the same style of power delivery as now just with more of it.

 

I've looked into the TTC mode and the sound difference isn't that much better, if I go hybrids I won't be in TTC mode I'm afraid.

 

Anyone local to Coventry who wants to take me for a spin and assure me single is the way to go lol

[Frank Bullitt]

Right CW SMIC it is then, thanks for clearing that up for me!

 

This might be silly but how much should I budget for a small single build like this? Taking everything into consideration and doing it properly.

 

Thanks again!

 

How far do you want to take the build? How much would you be looking to spend? Can you do any work yourself because parts wise it's pretty cheap, it's the labour that whacks up the price.

 

Tim at TB developments has a really nice single kit on the go. He has a lovely ported Treadstone cast manifold with a reworked wastegate. Again, just like CWs SMIC nothing else like it out there. Forget about a screamer pipe, you want the exhaust gas as hot as possible so run the wastegate back into the exhaust system.

 

Match it with a Garrett turbo, something small. They have better early and midrange power but don't have the top end that a Precision turbo provides. Camshafts stay stock, forget about changing them. Intake stay stock, yes it will give you horsepower but at the expense of torque. You want quick you want torque.

 

Rebuild your brakes. CW does stainless bits and great pads (can you tell I'm on commission? ) fit OEM discs. Upping the HP is great but make sure your stopping gear is spot on. Sort your suspension out, make sure it's all good and that geometry is spot on.

 

Replace your torsen with an OS Giken 1.5 way LSD. You will kill your OEM version which may mean serious down time. Look at changing the rear end, going for an NA/auto ratio would make for a rapid car but at the expense of top end.

 

Chuck some water injection in there, inject it into the TB. Use it as protection, not for extra power. Let it keep the engine cool.

 

One thing to note, you mention the desire for a particular sound. A cast manifold (fast spooling) sounds very different to a mandrel exhaust. Cast is deep and a mandrel is higher pitched.

[Frank Bullitt]

if I go hybrids I won't be in TTC mode I'm afraid

 

Spot on, absolutely pointless unless you want to ruin the drive of the car by increasing the lag factor. TT or small single.

[Swampy442]

You know what would be the biggest benefit? Aftermarket ECU, Syvecs etc. You can liberate a lot more power from the stock set up with a good ECU and map.

[Samurai 20V]

Glad to hear they are still going strong bud! Just shows you how well they were built originally

 

Which company rebuilt yours?

[Rashed]

How far do you want to take the build? How much would you be looking to spend? Can you do any work yourself because parts wise it's pretty cheap, it's the labour that whacks up the price.

 

Tim at TB developments has a really nice single kit on the go. He has a lovely ported Treadstone cast manifold with a reworked wastegate. Again, just like CWs SMIC nothing else like it out there. Forget about a screamer pipe, you want the exhaust gas as hot as possible so run the wastegate back into the exhaust system.

 

Match it with a Garrett turbo, something small. They have better early and midrange power but don't have the top end that a Precision turbo provides. Camshafts stay stock, forget about changing them. Intake stay stock, yes it will give you horsepower but at the expense of torque. You want quick you want torque.

 

Rebuild your brakes. CW does stainless bits and great pads (can you tell I'm on commission? ) fit OEM discs. Upping the HP is great but make sure your stopping gear is spot on. Sort your suspension out, make sure it's all good and that geometry is spot on.

 

Replace your torsen with an OS Giken 1.5 way LSD. You will kill your OEM version which may mean serious down time. Look at changing the rear end, going for an NA/auto ratio would make for a rapid car but at the expense of top end.

 

Chuck some water injection in there, inject it into the TB. Use it as protection, not for extra power. Let it keep the engine cool.

 

One thing to note, you mention the desire for a particular sound. A cast manifold (fast spooling) sounds very different to a mandrel exhaust. Cast is deep and a mandrel is higher pitched.

 

Ideally I just want a good setup street car, nothing crazy with 1000bhp. Honestly I'll be happy with 500-600 usable and reliable power to have some fun with. I don't really have a budget in mind but I wouldn't want to overspend on things that are overkill for my intended build. I can't really do the work myself as I don't believe I am knowledgeable enough so I can see myself spending more on labour unfortunately.

 

I've spoken to Tim at TB about his single setup after I purchased my initial decat pipes off him so I know his quality of work is superb. Will look into it further if I do decide to go for a single setup 100%

 

I have the factory turbo big brakes front & rear but will look into refreshing them as they need it, along with braided lines and better fluid. I too believe stopping power is as equally important as engine power/speed lol

 

At the moment I have eibach springs with standard shock absorbers but it seems the bilstein b6 are a good option?

 

Currently running the factory A03B diff, may look into a big diff or OS giken so the power can be handled, what else do you mean by rear end?

 

Yeah I wanted to run some extra cooling like water injection just to help keep the engine on the cool safe side more so than making extra power.

 

Cast manifold seems perfect as I want that deep 2jz tone and quick spool.

 

Thanks for all your help dude, really appreciate it and I'm sure I will be needing more and more advice/help lol

 

The TT hybrid setup is still on the table until I weigh up my options and see what is best for me but for now I'm trying to get as much info as I can

[Rashed]

You know what would be the biggest benefit? Aftermarket ECU, Syvecs etc. You can liberate a lot more power from the stock set up with a good ECU and map.

 

Initially talking to a couple of tuners and my garage that would be doing all the work, they did say with the hybrid TT setup an aftermarket standalone ECU would make the most effective difference.

Would a Syvecs ECU be overkill? I was looking and Link and ECUmaster initially etc.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Glad to hear they are still going strong bud! Just shows you how well they were built originally

 

Who rebuilt your twins dude?

[Mo Reviews]

Initially talking to a couple of tuners and my garage that would be doing all the work, they did say with the hybrid TT setup an aftermarket standalone ECU would make the most effective difference.

Would a Syvecs ECU be overkill? I was looking and Link and ECUmaster initially etc.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Who rebuilt your twins dude?

 

With a syvecs you wouldn't really lose much money on resale as they sell like hot pancakes. Also, it future proofs your set up should you decide to go single further down the line.