What's best for supra owners - brexit or remain?

[herbiemercman]

Hi Guys, As the title of this thread states, what is best for us Supra owners, "Brexit" or "Remain" ?

 

I appreciate that many may not even read this thread as they are sick and tired of issues related to this every time they turn their TV on. Herbie.

[MrGRT]

Remain

 

 

[Brian_C1]

Has to be remain, I'm in Ireland and no one here will dream of buying a car from the UK if VAT and duty will be owed in it, the same will apply for anyone on the continent aswel.

 

Only possible market for export would be the states who already have those costs as it stands

[samdale]

Has to be remain, I'm in Ireland and no one here will dream of buying a car from the UK if VAT and duty will be owed in it

 

Why not? Plenty of people in the UK import from Japan and pay vat and duty. You might find if the pound crashes that it's cheaper to buy stuff from the UK.

[_Shane_]

Why not? Plenty of people in the UK import from Japan and pay vat and duty. You might find if the pound crashes that it's cheaper to buy stuff from the UK.

 

because in Ireland you also have a thing called VRT (vehicle registration tax). I seen a post recently on an Irish facebook page where a guy vrt'd his 1996 Supra and the vrt was €6200. So add that on top of duty and vat

[trevorc]

Personally, I end up on the exiting side but not for the usual reasons.

 

My view is formed on the basis of the political system in Europe is not static and has a future direction of travel with things such as a European army and other topics before the EU parliament which drive towards a more connected state/system.

 

So I'm all for positive trade, and as far as people go I would given a blanket Visa to anyone already here, and be happy to have more people come as that is a positive sign of an economy doing well overall.

 

There are plenty of incorrect statements/statistics on the Brexit sign in the news, the problem is on the other camp there is a lack of information about where the EU is planning to go in the future.

 

So remaining doesn't actually meaning staying as we are already unfortunately, otherwise I would be happy with that way position.

 

 

[trevorc]

Bigger long term threat is what do we do when petrol eventually is phased out.

 

Note, suspicious about real long term eco effects of electric batteries, can they last 100 years? Especially when fitted to millions of vehicles...

 

 

[Brian_C1]

Why not? Plenty of people in the UK import from Japan and pay vat and duty. You might find if the pound crashes that it's cheaper to buy stuff from the UK.

 

And to further what Shane said, look at the auction sale prices in Japan, not the landed price in the UK including VAT and duty, the UK would need to match the Japan auction prices before VAT and duty is added and they are currently much dearer because the VAT and duty is built into the current market price in the UK!

 

So unless the pound crashed massively compared to the euro, dollar and yen then it'll make the UK not very attractive

[Chris Wilson]

Firm exiter here, the EU have proven incapable of handling economic migrants, the situation has festered uncontrolled apart from Italy and Hungary, and perhaps Poland, and talk of aan EU army is risible, when last tested in the Balkans the EU was a waste of time and they had to rely again on the Yanks to sort things out. They are corrupt, most of the top brass have criminal baggage, too big to make snap decisions in a crisis and hell bent on a European Super State a part of which i have no desire whatsoever to become. I am an old fashioned Nationalist and sovereignty, now a dirty word amongst university leavers, is something I treasure.

 

Any missing or duplicate "a's" is down to fag ash in the laptop keyboard....Bloody thing

Edited September 6, 2019 by Chris Wilson (see edit history)

[Johnm400]

Id rather the Supra become worthless than remain. Who in the right mind would ever want a foreign power to have the ruling hand over your own country, Supra or no Supra.

[Annabella]

Leave

[peter richards]

I thought we voted to leave ah right that doesn't matter 3 years and they still cant sort it out ,total incompetence

[mike33]

Leave

[peter richards]

leave send all the scrounging imigrants back to wherever they came from ,and start to look after our own , and im sure the rest of the EU will soon come calling , we was at one time great Britain need to become that again

[SupraLEDrears]

Seems like there are a bunch of sun newspaper readers here

[AC93]

leave send all the scrounging imigrants back to wherever they came from ,and start to look after our own , and im sure the rest of the EU will soon come calling , we was at one time great Britain need to become that again

 

You do know the UK government is in charge of its own immigration controls, not the EU? :ROFL:

 

First, the largest category of migrants to the UK come from outside the EU, and are not entitled to rely on EU laws on freedom of movement. The UK’s ability to restrict entry to this group is unaffected by its membership of the EU.

Secondly, whereas many Member States have replaced individual controls with a common policy at their common frontier (known as the Schengen Area), the UK chose to retain its right to independent border control and is entitled to check the identity of every individual entering the country.

Thirdly, EU law does not provide nationals from other EU Member States with an unlimited right to enter or remain in the UK.

 

If you voted Brexit because you read the Sun and support Nigel Farage and want immigrants gone then your problem is not EU membership, it's our own government!

[Pete]

Besides that this thread has obviously deviated away from the original subject (no surprise there - I say keep your Supra and enjoy it and stop worrying about its value)....

 

Seems like there are a bunch of sun newspaper readers here

Indeed. So tired of pointing out the lies to the "average"* Brexit voter (either way) that's not interested in understanding the facts and more interested in believing meme's shared by their blinkered friends so I've mostly given up.

*I say average...some have formed their own opinion based on research with is fantastic and to be encouraged.

 

Whatever your informed choice is fine, I respect that...but in the same way you should'nt vote for a party just because your parents and neighbours do and instead make up your own minds by reading the manifests on how a party will affect YOU...I also expect people to make some basic research to reach their own conclusions.

If you want a light hearted and interesting understanding of how to decipher bullsh*t and make proper data based decisions I recommend Ben Goldacre's Bad Science

 

 

Remain

Leave

Very insightful arguments well put forward, thank you for your contributions.

 

leave send all the scrounging imigrants back to wherever they came from ,and start to look after our own , and im sure the rest of the EU will soon come calling , we was at one time great Britain need to become that again

"scrounging"? Are you including genuine asylum seekers brought on by wars we waded into - a whole other can of worms for discussion there.

We've always had control of our borders against that, unfortunately the incompetent UK bureaucrats without a back bone fluffed it - blame them! http://lawyers-inforbritain.uk/b-m-a/can-the-uk-control-its-borders-if-it-remains-in-the-eu/

 

We NEED legal immigration as the traditional British guy (the ones the racists love) aren't breeding enough or don't want to do the menial jobs to support a growing economy.

 

Anyway - what was so great about 60's/70's Britain that people seem to yearn for?

Is it the increased poverty? (Wilfred Beckerman estimated that 9.9% of the British population lived below a standardised poverty line in 1973, compared with 6.1% of the population of Belgium.[17])

Maybe it was the slums where "12% of British households living in houses or flats considered to be unfit for human habitation in 1972"?

Some people sure seem to love returning back to the days of poverty. [ATTACH=CONFIG]233239[/ATTACH]

Our OWN government shat on us from a great height in various ways that they didn't necessarily need to (mining closures, steel works, privatisation etc) because it suited their financial agenda. I'm no expert on this, but I understand they screwed over the North of Britain to help "the country" (ie London) prosper.

However that worked, the shift of moving to more service orientated industries must have been more attractive to future generations compared to the filthy dangers working in a hole or in a steel works.

 

However, the facts show that Britain was never really that great and has seen huge gains in my lifetime.

 

You *could* argue that you think Britain might have been "Greater" for not being in the EU and point out some fiscal studies that try to point out if the EU has held us back in some way. Please do find something credible to convince me.

 

Id rather the Supra become worthless than remain. Who in the right mind would ever want a foreign power to have the ruling hand over your own country, Supra or no Supra.

"The ruling hand" - wow, seriously?

 

I don't have time to point out all the good ways we've benefitted and things that the EU has forced our government to do for the good of the environment, privacy, GDPR etc. Also keeping our government in check from doing what the hell they like. (Any George Orwell or Margaret Atwood fans out there?)

These links seem to offer some impartial facts:

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/what-proportion-of-uk-law-is-made-in-brussels/

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/does-eu-law-take-precedence-over-uk-law/

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/what-is-sovereignty/

 

Besides, even if you DO think Brexit will resolve that particular issue I believe you'll be sadly mistaken. This is an interesting article (there are A LOT of words, hang in there! It's OK to give up half way, I didn't read the whole thing either.) but here's an interesting highlight fairly early in

The idea that once the UK left the EU Britain could ‘do away’ with regulation from Brussels, because it is mostly unnecessary, has proven to be an utter fantasy

 

 

As for No Deal - the importance of trade agreements is taught to school children in basic economics class. https://www.tutor2u.net/economics/reference/importance-of-trade-for-developing-countries

If you're leaving a major trading partner then you'd better have done some top notch negotiations (which our incompetent government has utterly failed to do). We'd need to have some excellent deals elsewhere - oh, but the rest of the world knows we're desperate and aren't going to give us favourable deals right now. Sure, the USA would love to sell us their sub standard meats, but is it really a good deal?

 

Sure, there's always room for improvement to agreements and changes to be made as our needs change overtime - but to have no trade deal overnight with our closest neighbours is economical suicide and will put many many companies out of business if they cannot survive after the required price increases. But then most people don't care about business owners, "yeah, stick it to the man we don't sell the the EU!"..."Oh, what? that machine over there has broken and we can't afford to replace it because it was made in Italy? You've got to sack two guys to be able to afford it and one of them is me? Oh......I'd best go pick some potatoes in East Anglia then".

 

 

Basically....and this is the crux....whatever you believe would work better for you, your kids etc we've been utterly and completely failed by the government to implement anything like a good picture for our future since the vote. I mean really...it was always going to be pretty impossible to implement the required changes in such a short period...but what actual progress has been made?

 

Why aren't we marching on the streets TOGETHER complaining about that we want the government to get their act together? Stop turning on each other and unify against those morons to get us the best outcome.

 

All we're left with is a bitter Marmite divide between the people who are frustrated in equal parts that they're not being listened to...even within the political parties themselves. All I know with certainty is that jumping off a cliff together whilst punching each other in the face is not going to improve anything.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Pete (see edit history)

[Chris Wilson]

Now young Peter, whilst you are doing your research check out affect and effect, or if in doubt try the simpler ruled "impact"....

[Scooter]

Why aren't we marching on the streets TOGETHER complaining about that we want the government to get their act together? Stop turning on each other and unify against those morons to get us the best outcome.

 

All we're left with is a bitter Marmite divide between the people who are frustrated in equal parts that they're not being listened to...even within the political parties themselves. All I know with certainty is that jumping off a cliff together whilst punching each other in the face is not going to improve anything.

 

The day after the referendum, there should have been a move to get us all together and pulling in the same direction. Unfortunately the MP's being majority remainders has meant that rather than unifying the begrudging remain voters they have actively encouraged resistance/protest, supported their voice not focused them on making the best of a (in their heads) bad decision. So we are entering negotiations without any resemblance of a united front so the other side can just sit back and relax!?

 

Why on all other legislation, general elections, by elections etc etc etc are results universally accepted but a close to once in a lifetime referendum where people feel very personally invested is being so questioned and openly contested, many mp's nailing their colours to the mast in favour of remain, a whole party's policy in one case?

 

I don't like the democracy in the following.....The referendum was my first ever vote, I voted remain, I lost, but may actually win.....this to me would be a farce?

 

If one option of a binary referendum was never going to be actioned then that's the completely undemocratic and doesn't sit right. The principle here is more important than the result to me.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Pete (see edit history)

[Pete]

Now young Peter, whilst you are doing your research check out affect and effect, or if in doubt try the simpler ruled "impact"....

 

I pi$$ed off at the time I'd spent writing it as it was without worrying too much about the spelling/grammar. I hope you got further through than that!

Edited September 7, 2019 by Pete (see edit history)

[mc92]

We NEED legal immigration as the traditional British guy (the ones the racists love) aren't breeding enough or don't want to do the menial jobs to support a growing economy.

 

This is what the governments tell you after big business has bribed them so they can let our wages stagnate and not pay us what we deserve for doing those jobs. Minimum wage is a fortune for an Eastern European or rural indian so they'll happily work for less, accept lower housing and food standards, etc, bringing it down for the rest of us.

 

Why aren't we marching on the streets TOGETHER complaining about that we want the government to get their act together? Stop turning on each other and unify against those morons to get us the best outcome.

 

Because we have £1 mcdonalds burgers and costa coffees and facebook and the idiot box to keep us happy and the news media to keep us brainwashed, and work all day every day to keep us just too tired to be bothered to do anything that threatens their rule. Nobody will be out in the streets until life becomes too uncomfortable to keep them happy, by which point it will be too late.

 

I voted Remain because I didn't trust this group of self-serving monkeys to be able to get their act together enough to see it through, not because I particularly agreed with either side. It keeps up my perfect record of losing every single vote that I've participated in

 

p.s. it feels weird being an anti-immigration lefty these days.

[Chris Wilson]

The day after the referendum, there should have been a move to get us all together and pulling in the same direction. Unfortunately the MP's being majority remainders has meant that rather than unifying the begrudging remain voters they have actively encouraged resistance/protest, supported their voice not focused them on making the best of a (in their heads) bad decision. So we are entering negotiations without any resemblance of a united front so the other side can just sit back and relax!?

 

Why on all other legislation, general elections, by elections etc etc etc are results universally accepted but a close to once in a lifetime referendum where people feel very personally invested is being so questioned and openly contested, many mp's nailing their colours to the mast in favour of remain, a whole party's policy in one case?

 

I don't like the democracy in the following.....The referendum was my first ever vote, I voted remain, I lost, but may actually win.....this to me would be a farce?

 

If one option of a binary referendum was never going to be actioned then that's the completely undemocratic and doesn't sit right. The principle here is more important than the result to me.

 

 

An excellent and balanced post, if a referendum on one of the most important topics in our recent history is to be wrangled by those that are incapable of losing due to whatever, it sets a frightening precedent for any future vote that may take place in the UK. If a vote for the Liberal Democrats wins, or the Labour Party wins at the next general election, should I feel enabled to strike up about the ignorance of the voters, and demand a second vote probably biased towards my desires, or that the vote was biased because they were duped by other powers into making a voting decision beyond their capacity? What criterion should a democratic vote be judged by? Education? Age? Their educational establishments? Pitiful, if we had voted to remain who on the exit side would have felt so triggered to have gone through such hoops to attempt to circumnavigate the result? I HONESTLY believe we have a millennial voting sector who have been "educated" to not accept losing as an option should it go against their desires. We are on the cusp of making a democratic vote subject to later scrutiny based on the subjective opinion of the losers about the capacity of the participants. Quite frightening given the bias for some to promote minority aggrandisement.

[jonc]

Besides that this thread has obviously deviated away from the original subject (no surprise there - I say keep your Supra and enjoy it and stop worrying about its value)....

 

 

Indeed. So tired of pointing out the lies to the "average"* Brexit voter (either way) that's not interested in understanding the facts and more interested in believing meme's shared by their blinkered friends so I've mostly given up.

*I say average...some have formed their own opinion based on research with is fantastic and to be encouraged.

 

Whatever your informed choice is fine, I respect that...but in the same way you should'nt vote for a party just because your parents and neighbours do and instead make up your own minds by reading the manifests on how a party will affect YOU...I also expect people to make some basic research to reach their own conclusions.

If you want a light hearted and interesting understanding of how to decipher bullsh*t and make proper data based decisions I recommend Ben Goldacre's Bad Science

 

 

 

 

Very insightful arguments well put forward, thank you for your contributions.

 

 

"scrounging"? Are you including genuine asylum seekers brought on by wars we waded into - a whole other can of worms for discussion there.

We've always had control of our borders against that, unfortunately the incompetent UK bureaucrats without a back bone fluffed it - blame them! http://lawyers-inforbritain.uk/b-m-a/can-the-uk-control-its-borders-if-it-remains-in-the-eu/

 

We NEED legal immigration as the traditional British guy (the ones the racists love) aren't breeding enough or don't want to do the menial jobs to support a growing economy.

 

Anyway - what was so great about 60's/70's Britain that people seem to yearn for?

Is it the increased poverty? (Wilfred Beckerman estimated that 9.9% of the British population lived below a standardised poverty line in 1973, compared with 6.1% of the population of Belgium.[17])

Maybe it was the slums where "12% of British households living in houses or flats considered to be unfit for human habitation in 1972"?

Some people sure seem to love returning back to the days of poverty. [ATTACH=CONFIG]233239[/ATTACH]

Our OWN government shat on us from a great height in various ways that they didn't necessarily need to (mining closures, steel works, privatisation etc) because it suited their financial agenda. I'm no expert on this, but I understand they screwed over the North of Britain to help "the country" (ie London) prosper.

However that worked, the shift of moving to more service orientated industries must have been more attractive to future generations compared to the filthy dangers working in a hole or in a steel works.

 

However, the facts show that Britain was never really that great and has seen huge gains in my lifetime.

 

You *could* argue that you think Britain might have been "Greater" for not being in the EU and point out some fiscal studies that try to point out if the EU has held us back in some way. Please do find something credible to convince me.

 

 

"The ruling hand" - wow, seriously?

 

I don't have time to point out all the good ways we've benefitted and things that the EU has forced our government to do for the good of the environment, privacy, GDPR etc. Also keeping our government in check from doing what the hell they like. (Any George Orwell or Margaret Atwood fans out there?)

These links seem to offer some impartial facts:

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/what-proportion-of-uk-law-is-made-in-brussels/

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/does-eu-law-take-precedence-over-uk-law/

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/what-is-sovereignty/

 

Besides, even if you DO think Brexit will resolve that particular issue I believe you'll be sadly mistaken. This is an interesting article (there are A LOT of words, hang in there! It's OK to give up half way, I didn't read the whole thing either.) but here's an interesting highlight fairly early in

 

 

As for No Deal - the importance of trade agreements is taught to school children in basic economics class. https://www.tutor2u.net/economics/reference/importance-of-trade-for-developing-countries

If you're leaving a major trading partner then you'd better have done some top notch negotiations (which our incompetent government has utterly failed to do). We'd need to have some excellent deals elsewhere - oh, but the rest of the world knows we're desperate and aren't going to give us favourable deals right now. Sure, the USA would love to sell us their sub standard meats, but is it really a good deal?

 

Sure, there's always room for improvement to agreements and changes to be made as our needs change overtime - but to have no trade deal overnight with our closest neighbours is economical suicide and will put many many companies out of business if they cannot survive after the required price increases. But then most people don't care about business owners, "yeah, stick it to the man we don't sell the the EU!"..."Oh, what? that machine over there has broken and we can't afford to replace it because it was made in Italy? You've got to sack two guys to be able to afford it and one of them is me? Oh......I'd best go pick some potatoes in East Anglia then".

 

 

Basically....and this is the crux....whatever you believe would work better for you, your kids etc we've been utterly and completely failed by the government to implement anything like a good picture for our future since the vote. I mean really...it was always going to be pretty impossible to implement the required changes in such a short period...but what actual progress has been made?

 

Why aren't we marching on the streets TOGETHER complaining about that we want the government to get their act together? Stop turning on each other and unify against those morons to get us the best outcome.

 

All we're left with is a bitter Marmite divide between the people who are frustrated in equal parts that they're not being listened to...even within the political parties themselves. All I know with certainty is that jumping off a cliff together whilst punching each other in the face is not going to improve anything.

 

Still leave after reading all that. It:blink:

 

Totally agree about parliament and the Government. The whole set up is not fit for purpose

 

But keeping my Sup:p

Edited September 8, 2019 by jonc (see edit history)

[herbiemercman]

Wow, this thread got a lot of people "out of bed", we had one PM called Wilson and i never realized we could have another one from Nantwich, lol.

 

I voted "Leave", at that point in time Nigel Farrage was my hero, the hub for many in Lancashire towns was immigration, as large areas have been taken over, the pubs closed and the Brits moved out . This i now realize was tunnel vision and the much bigger picture has over the past 3 years has now come to light.

MY CURRENT OPINION:

 

1.The immigrants from the EU, Poles etc are good workers, we need them and they tend to stay in the South, and they integrate, unlike the Asians.

2. There are so many important things we rely on the EU for, business, European labour, food, meds, etc.

3. We are not "Great Britain" anymore, the Commonwealth days are long gone and fading, we cannot stand alone with Globalization and the likes of Russia and China at our door.

4. I carried out a "SWOT" analysis, Strength, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats, and a "Pareto Analysis", this took me to "Remain".

Herbie.

Edited September 9, 2019 by herbiemercman (see edit history)

[The Raven]

For supra owners leave is the best option if your selling......Chances are our pound will continue to go down for a bit making our cars cheaper for people to buy from aboard.

 

For keeping.........remain as the parts will follow suit and cost us more.

 

Personally........Leave as soon as the EU told Cameron and his plea to reform to piss off thats enough for me. My elected PM begging to people i didn't elect to change and being told to run along is in my view not what i want to be a part of.