Johnm400 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Sorry to start a new thread about Bilsteins again but im in urgent need of help. I have fitted one Bilstein B6 shock with OEM spring and the ride height increased. After closer inspection it seems i had the lower spring seat the wrong way around. The problem is, when i turned the spring seat to the right way and put everything back togather, the spring is now loose on the shock absorber when i undo the spring compressors. I bought these shock absorbers on the impression that i could use the OEM springs but the spring is too short when fully extended. Is there anybody that is using OEM springs with these Bilstein B6 shock absorbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Pics might help? Just to clarify you are removing the whole top mount, shock and Spring assembly from the car to swap over the new shocks? If so are you saying with the spring on the seat and the top mount on and retaining top nut done up the spring is slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 Pics might help? Just to clarify you are removing the whole top mount, shock and Spring assembly from the car to swap over the new shocks? If so are you saying with the spring on the seat and the top mount on and retaining top nut done up the spring is slack. Yes, exactly that. When reassembled the spring is loose. These are standard springs and ive double checked the part numbers and the shocks are the right part. The only way i can get the spring to sit firmly is by turning the lower mounting seat upside down but then the ride height is too high (as i complained yesterday) and the spring then does not sit properly on the mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 If the spring is loose its no big deal, when you have 1700 kilos of car on it, it will be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 If the spring is loose its no big deal, when you have 1700 kilos of car on it, it will be fine I did think this and hopefully the shock absorber should never fully extend during driving unless im doing jumps? Ill just have to make sure that if i jack the car up in future that the spring does not turn relative to the mounts otherwise it wont seat correctly. Ill send Bilstein an email and see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ven Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 The spring should never be loose. It will fail an MOT like that as is not road worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 The spring should never be loose. It will fail an MOT like that as is not road worthy. /QUOTE] So whats the remedy? The website clearly says you can use stock springs with the B6 shocks. They have some minor scratches on them now from fitting so i cant send them back and i cant buy lowering springs because the car wont go in the garage. Is there anybody on here using stock springs with these shocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ven Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Pictures would really help with this. Can you take a pic of the bits and we can work it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blythmrk Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 My mates used to cable tie them back in the day (when they used to cut the springs to lower their cars!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 The spring should never be loose. It will fail an MOT like that as is not road worthy. /QUOTE] It's not loose on he car, just when off and reassembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ven Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 On an mot test, the front and rear are lifted off the floor independently. And items such as springs, shocks and top mounts are checked. If the spring is loose its not safe. This why some top end suspension has two springs. One as the main coil spring and a then a ‘helper’ spring which is used to take up the slack and keep the springs correctly seated when the wheels are off the floor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ven Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Ah got you, I just can't imagine once fitted its loose even on the fully suspension drop, but it's really not easy to picture and something sounds odd re this. In my experience there is not much compression in the springs once off the car, ie you don't need compressors to reattach the shock top bolt and I've certainly never lifted back in a shock spring and top mount that's had a loose Spring, somethings not quite adding up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ven Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Both supra’s i have owned have had aftermarket suspension so cannot comment on the standard spring compression. Pictures mean a 1000 words abd we need pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 I dont have pics as i didnt take any. Will have to get some tomorrow but just imagine the strut all built up as per normal and the spring not long enough to touch the top and bottom mount at the same time. Theres a gap of about 5-10 mm between the spring and seat, the spring is not under any tension at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dash Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 I have these fitted front and rear with stock springs with no issues at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ven Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 How old are the springs? Over time springs loose their elasticity (if thats the correct term) and could loose near 20mm of total length. Some of the springs on these cars can be near 20 years old so that could be your issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Did you do this https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/sachs/technology-in-practice/workshop-tips/shock-absorbers-and-dampers/changing-shock-absorbers/ Pushing them down, it takes some effort pushing on the top mount, but perhaps after this when you tighten them up the residual pressure in them won't open back up any gap in the spring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Also if you wanted to test uncompressed Spring length I have some off a car I could measure for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonc Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 I'm on my second set of Bilsteins on mkiv's and have never come across this on stock springs. To get the top mounts on the springs have needed to be compressed with the spring compressor. Are you 100% sure the shock length is correct and it's the correct B6 bilstein shock for the mkiv? Or maybe you don't have stock springs. I know the Bilsteins fit well with most common lowering springs. I can't remember which model number I have but will see if I can find it for the shocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 I have these fitted front and rear with stock springs with no issues at all. Thanks so there should be no problem then. I am stumped with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 How old are the springs? Over time springs loose their elasticity (if thats the correct term) and could loose near 20mm of total length. Some of the springs on these cars can be near 20 years old so that could be your issue. /QUOTE] Well they are the original springs so 25 years old i assume but i had a spare spring on an old shock that was duff and thats the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 Did you do this https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/sachs/technology-in-practice/workshop-tips/shock-absorbers-and-dampers/changing-shock-absorbers/ Pushing them down, it takes some effort pushing on the top mount, but perhaps after this when you tighten them up the residual pressure in them won't open back up any gap in the spring? I didnt do that no, id never heard of it but im going to strip it down again today so will try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 Also if you wanted to test uncompressed Spring length I have some off a car I could measure for comparison. I have another spare stock spring which is the same as the two on the car but if you could measure the length just to be sure that would be good thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm400 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 (edited) I'm on my second set of Bilsteins on mkiv's and have never come across this on stock springs. To get the top mounts on the springs have needed to be compressed with the spring compressor. Are you 100% sure the shock length is correct and it's the correct B6 bilstein shock for the mkiv? Or maybe you don't have stock springs. I know the Bilsteins fit well with most common lowering springs. I can't remember which model number I have but will see if I can find it for the shocks My springs are deffo J spec stock and i even have a spare stock spring which is the same. The piston rod on the Bilsteins is about half an inch longer than the Toyota piston rod when lay side by side but the bolt eye to the lower mount plate is the same length. Part number of my Bilsteins is 24-017923 if you could check yours? Edited June 2, 2019 by Johnm400 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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