Hybrid or single

[Supra-love]

To be or not to be this is my question..

 

I’m torn wether to hybrid my ct20s machine the housings for 18g compressor wheels, port the wastegates holes, or just go single.

 

The hybrids with surrounding mods to them would hopefully give 600-650 maximum.

 

This is all keeping my engine stock apart from cams

[Mk4Gaz]

Totally depends what you want.

 

Personally I went single, as it's more reliable and much easier to work on should there be a problem. My stock twins were still working fine, but I wanted to simplify things as inevitably they would die at some point.

 

 

 

[mwilkinson]

Which hybrid setup will give you 600+ bhp?

[Frank Bullitt]

Which hybrid setup will give you 600+ bhp?

 

Special american ones with exotic fuel and high compression, although I take that with a very large pinch of salt.

 

If you want to make that power, go single on a cast manifold. Twins won't do it unless you fudge the figures.

 

E2A

 

Is that 600-650 at the crank, hubs or on an engine dyno?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Frank Bullitt
Question added. (see edit history)

[drift_bear]

I liked my hybrid set up and made good power as well with the supporting mods at the time!

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?336306-Hybrid-TT6-SRD500S

[Frank Bullitt]

No offence intended DB but going single is far better and cheaper than going TTC.

 

If you want twins stay happy with BPU and sequential. If you want more power go single, not TTC.

[mwilkinson]

I was willing to be told otherwise. Tech has moved on, especially when coupled with a decent ECU.

 

But 600bhp, real world sequential twins, I've not heard of before.

[Frank Bullitt]

I was willing to be told otherwise. Tech has moved on, especially when coupled with a decent ECU.

 

But 600bhp, real world sequential twins, I've not heard of before.

 

The 18G wheels have been around a long time and are very laggy. A well set up small single on a cast manifold will p1ss all over them.

 

Stu Hagen makes good power (running a 10.5) with his but looking at the dyno graphs he isn't making 500hp until 4500rpm.

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Frank Bullitt
Video added. (see edit history)

[drift_bear]

No offence intended DB but going single is far better and cheaper than going TTC.

 

If you want twins stay happy with BPU and sequential. If you want more power go single, not TTC.

 

No offence taken at all, I never wanted to go single and wanted to push the car. It was already running hybrids and TTC when I got it, so thought “fuck it” and seen what could be done... only reason I went big twins after was more the fact they were sitting there and I wanted more power (just like every other owner does eventually).

[Frank Bullitt]

No offence taken at all, I never wanted to go single and wanted to push the car. It was already running hybrids and TTC when I got it, so thought “fuck it” and seen what could be done... only reason I went big twins after was more the fact they were sitting there and I wanted more power (just like every other owner does eventually).

 

 

I forgot to mention that you were pretty much sorted before going down that route, something the OP will need to keep in mind.

[Supra-love]

Special american ones with exotic fuel and high compression, although I take that with a very large pinch of salt.

 

If you want to make that power, go single on a cast manifold. Twins won't do it unless you fudge the figures.

 

E2A

 

Is that 600-650 at the crank, hubs or on an engine dyno?

 

Yea swaying more to a single setup to be fair but wanted to try and keep the oem look, that I was told would be at The crank mate

[mellonman]

I wouldn't waste my time or money going hybrid . You have got to get all supporting mods as if you was going single . But I still think my car was best a bpu and I had stage 3 hybrids and now T67 single but that's due to the fact I'm auto . If going single and want to be fast off the line in a auto a hi stall is a must

[Style]

I don't know his user name on here but I have Mark Dance on FB and he is running hybrid turbos. A lot of custom work has been done to free up restrictions on the intake and exhaust pipework around the turbos but it's making something like 540hp at 1.4bar iirc and there's still some bits he's got planned to get more power out of it. Some amazing work

[drift_bear]

I don't know his user name on here but I have Mark Dance on FB and he is running hybrid turbos. A lot of custom work has been done to free up restrictions on the intake and exhaust pipework around the turbos but it's making something like 540hp at 1.4bar iirc and there's still some bits he's got planned to get more power out of it. Some amazing work

 

Yeah he’s on here as “Pulley”. He makes 540hp @1.4bar and is Stock cams, vpower, ct20’s (custom buily by himself hybrids)... I’ll point him in the direction of here so he can chime in. He also had a big power NA-t so can give a could opinion about the whole hybrid vs single question

[Supra-love]

Yea marks the guy I’m in talks with about this. It’s either this option or gtx3584rs single.

[Pulley]

It’s a me mario , well Mark aka pulley actually

 

Efficiency is the word, bigger turbines/ compressor wheels are more efficient and with the latest billet comp wheels the spinning mass weighs very little and coupled with the correct small hotside housing and volume of runner configuration a single will spook very quickly

And be more reliable than machining out the ct20 turbo

I have access to an engine dyna cell and my background is small jet engine development/flow dynamics so turbo work is in my line

Which is why I decided to play with my ct20 setup to initially optimise it as it’s only rally designed to flow 3-400 flyhorsepower

My large bore twin intake means I have the very least inlet restriction possible (smaller compressor wheels need all the help they can get) and as I’m running parallel a deleted charge side butterfly-Reed valve and I’m actually running 2 front turbos so utilising 2 wastegates (although I do a rear turbo wastegate conversion also now)

Reason for this is to get rid of restrictor plate and allow the best flowing exhaust downpipe ect possible

So my cast merge is replaced with a 6”across fabricated unit with a 4” downpipe

I decided to test this arrangement with simple stock size inconel turbine ct20’s (hybrid) and made 540 at 1.4

1.4 is a fairly safe level of boost and the turbos are working more efficiently along with the engines hotside flowing far better

Stock cams vpower and just a sard ecu and uprated pump/injectors

The cast manifold is massively restrictive and only really designed to flow 400

The biggest restriction on the stock twin setup is the exhaust Y peice on a jap spec and having to run a restrictor plate

I will be running some highflow hybrids for shits n giggles later this year

 

So my advice, from facts not wives tales - bigger turbos flow more efficiently, tubular manifolds often used to support big single turbos flow more efficiently, a well spec’d volume and design tubular manifold coupled a correctly spec’d turbo hotside for desired hp and response required will always be better than a restrictive cast manifold and two small turbos

 

Think of it this way, if you had a big single turbo with tubular manifold and a stock twin with cast manifold and you blanked off the hotside snail castings so exhaust passed thru and into the downpipe with no turbine present, the engine with the cast manifold and two small turbos would far more restriction

This is still relevant when turbocharging an engine, mr T designed the lovely sequential to run circa 330 fwhp remember

 

 

So, if you have an ecu and fuelling done already and fancy staying twin ct20 configuration then go with some upgrades, breathing and hotside and either a turbo refresh with inconel turbines or maybe larger compressors

 

Or save your money and go big single and be able to run more power more reliably

[Pulley]

Apologies for poor autocorrect as written with sausage fingers on iPhone

[Noz]

I'd like to see what a 58mm turbo would run down the strip on a good setup. I can find lots of 500whp dyno and a few videos.

 

For boost they seem to be the best choice for power delivery but not many people seem to go down the route of small single.

 

I seen to see people either go BPU or 62mm+.

 

Anyone have around 500hp with a single that's nearly out of smoke?

 

4500rpm for full boost on TTC, is that common? My old T61 turbo on NAt had full boost at 3800 and I wouldn't want later than that unless the rev range was increased.