auzzam Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Hi guys, Hoping for a little guidance here. I just got married last month and whilst I was on honeymoon the MOT ran out on my supra. I know the laws have gotten stricter, but it seems no garage is willing to test the car as it has no cats (BPU setup). The last garage I went to was happy to do the no cat emissions test, but was adamant if the car came with a cat from factory and it has been removed its a straight fail. My questions are: 1) does a 1993 J spec supra require the cat in order to go through MOT. If not are there any sections that I can show the testers? 2) does anyone know of people in the London area (near Walthamstow) who regularly MOT supras/modified imports. As I've run out of the Mot, I'll need to book it in before driving it on the road. I'm hoping people have still managed to get through, otherwise I'm not sure what else to do. (is the only option to put a cat back in?) - once I can source one. Thanks Auzzam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I would pm Benjy http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?306487-Decat-MOT-query-BPU-without-decat/page2&highlight=cats+imports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 We had similar problems in ireland with guys removing the dpf in the diesel s, even though they pass emissions was straight fail. What guys did was knock the inside out them put them back on and remap, the tester can't see inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blythmrk Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Does this cat removed ruling involve my 1989 Supra mkiii turbo too? Both cats removed and I don’t have any to fit either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blythmrk Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Does this cat removed ruling involve my 1989 Supra mkiii turbo too? Both cats removed and I don’t have any to fit either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnPreece Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Does this cat removed ruling involve my 1989 Supra mkiii turbo too? Both cats removed and I don’t have any to fit either Don't quote me exact but im 99% sure its only 1993 onwards still, anything up to and including 1992 im pretty sure your fine mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ven Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Reading up on the regulations last night. If the car is built between 1993-1996 it comes under the euro 1 emissions. Looking at the numbers.. any car will pass this test without cats as long as its running correctly and not massively over fuelling. After 1996 it goes to euro class 2 which is slightly stricter rules up untill 2001 when it changes to euro 3 when it is stricter emissions again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Reading up on the regulations last night. If the car is built between 1993-1996 it comes under the euro 1 emissions. Looking at the numbers.. any car will pass this test without cats as long as its running correctly and not massively over fuelling. After 1996 it goes to euro class 2 which is slightly stricter rules up untill 2001 when it changes to euro 3 when it is stricter emissions again. Sent from my iPhone using Crapatalk Post a copy of those regulation on here, then members can print off a copy to show to any MOT tester who is too dim to perform the job they're paid to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blythmrk Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Don't quote me exact but im 99% sure its only 1993 onwards still, anything up to and including 1992 im pretty sure your fine mate Good news thanks Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Ven Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Here is a link to the AA’s website on euro emission regulations. https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/fuels-environment/euro-emissions-standards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Reading up on the regulations last night. If the car is built between 1993-1996 it comes under the euro 1 emissions. Looking at the numbers.. any car will pass this test without cats as long as its running correctly and not massively over fuelling. After 1996 it goes to euro class 2 which is slightly stricter rules up untill 2001 when it changes to euro 3 when it is stricter emissions again. /QUOTE] If it was fitted with a cat from factory then it must have one fitted. This is how mine failed. Tried to argue on the points above but was told that’s not correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 If it was fitted with a cat from factory then it must have one fitted. This is how mine failed. Tried to argue on the points above but was told that’s not correct. Did they have J spec supra spec then to check it came with cats? My understanding is they don’t have any data on j spec and therefore can only test it via the age rules above Of course trying to correct an mot tester will result in them finding every slight thing wrong and failing it regardless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I'm going to send the AA information to my insurance and ensure they will cover it with no cats and passing emissions. Then I just need to find a tester who also agrees. At the end of the day the important thing is making sure you're insured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I'm going to send the AA information to my insurance and ensure they will cover it with no cats and passing emissions. Then I just need to find a tester who also agrees. At the end of the day the important thing is making sure you're insured. I have told my insurance it has an after market exhaust. I count that as being good enough to cover that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I mentioned this a while ago, a friend has a modded mini, 2006 so definitely should have a cat to pass the MOT, he's binned it along with stock exhaust etc etc He's declared this to his insurance and they have covered his car which i don't get, as far as the wording goes the car is not roadworthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I mentioned this a while ago, a friend has a modded mini, 2006 so definitely should have a cat to pass the MOT, he's binned it along with stock exhaust etc etc He's declared this to his insurance and they have covered his car which i don't get, as far as the wording goes the car is not roadworthy That's really interesting. Any chance you know who the insurance company is. I'd like to get a quote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 He's declared this to his insurance and they have covered his car which i don't get, as far as the wording goes the car is not roadworthy not road worthy and not passing an MOT aren't quite the same thing I spose. I would say the presence or not of a cat has no bearing (by my definition) on road worthiness. It strictly speaking isn't allow on the road like that but it is in no way going to contribute directly to an increase in costs for the insurer. Saying this I would not be at all surprised for this to be either legislated against or gradually clamped down on one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I mentioned this a while ago, a friend has a modded mini, 2006 so definitely should have a cat to pass the MOT, he's binned it along with stock exhaust etc etc He's declared this to his insurance and they have covered his car which i don't get, as far as the wording goes the car is not roadworthy Has he got that in writing from the insurance company? They may have just marked him down as an aftermarket exhaust to secure his business and if it came to a claim, they'd just deny knowledge of the cat missing. It's a tricky one because you should probably apply the same logic to any other MOT failure. I wonder if you'd be refused insurance if you told them you had removed your wing mirror. Easy enough to bang back on for an MOT that'll last an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 not road worthy and not passing an MOT aren't quite the same thing I spose. I would say the presence or not of a cat has no bearing (by my definition) on road worthiness. It strictly speaking isn't allow on the road like that but it is in no way going to contribute directly to an increase in costs for the insurer. Saying this I would not be at all surprised for this to be either legislated against or gradually clamped down on one way or another. From my viewpoint. Cost of insurance isn't the issue it's the clarification or you could say agreement from them, saying in the case of a claim they won't use the absence of a cat against you, in order to reject the claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) not road worthy and not passing an MOT aren't quite the same thing I spose. I would say the presence or not of a cat has no bearing (by my definition) on road worthiness. It strictly speaking isn't allow on the road like that but it is in no way going to contribute directly to an increase in costs for the insurer. Saying this I would not be at all surprised for this to be either legislated against or gradually clamped down on one way or another. Its classed as a major fail as far as i can see so the car shouldn't be on the road Section 8 on wards https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671818/mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf Edited May 10, 2019 by Dnk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Has he got that in writing from the insurance company? They may have just marked him down as an aftermarket exhaust to secure his business and if it came to a claim, they'd just deny knowledge of the cat missing. It's a tricky one because you should probably apply the same logic to any other MOT failure. I wonder if you'd be refused insurance if you told them you had removed your wing mirror. Easy enough to bang back on for an MOT that'll last an hour. I've not seen his policy but he told me its written on it that the mods list includes the cars been de catted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Now that Parliament has declared a Climate Emergency, it is inevitable that emissions regulations will soon become stricter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/modifying-your-vehicles-emissions/modifying-your-vehicles-emissions-the-legal-safety-and-health-implications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Its classed as a major fail as far as i can see so the car shouldn't be on the road Section 8 on wards https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671818/mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf I get that, only it physically/practically is no less road worthy than a cat'd one, is my point, so unroadworthy in a legal/mot sense but still has better emissions than E type etc which is roadworthy. It's my internal definition rust within 'x' of a suspension component major fail is a worry, no cat fitted major fail not a worry! One could reasonably cause the insurance company to incur extra costs the other is a non event on that score? Extreme example, what's more roadworthy......what would you take to ferry the kids somewhere (oh think of the children ) 1) Brand new car, decatted 2) Same make of car, on 100k miles and 2 years 360 days old ie prior to its first mot (so could fail on a 'real' major) 3) Same make of car, on 100K miles and just passed its first MOT with a list of minor and 'fix soon' advises? To me 1) is the most roadworthy despite the lack of a cat. Just explaining my reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Section 8.2.1.1 it defines inspection of emission control equipment: This inspection only applies to vehicles requiring a full catalyst emissions test (disregarding the Basic Emissions Test) and is restricted to components that are readily visible and identifiable, such as catalytic converters, oxygen sensors, exhaust gas recirculation valves etc. It goes on to state: '(a) Emission control equipment fitted by the manufacturer: missing, obviously modified or obviously defective' is a major defect and therefore a fail. If you MOT tester knows what a Supra should have in terms of canisters and cats then those missing, modified or bypassed is an automatic fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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