B03B Ring and Pinion - UK Spec Manual Differential

[mwilkinson]

I'm aware that finding a B03B ring and pinion (3.266) is either near on impossible or I'd end up paying a terrifying sum for parts with wear and tear.

 

I was wondering about the possibility of having a set manufactured.

 

A quick Google search flags up a host of engineering companies that do this type of work for a range of classic cars.

 

Just wondered if anyone has ever done this, or work in the industry and can advise on the costs of such an enterprise?

 

The reason I ask is that my car has a 3:538 diff (I think) and I would like it to be as per the factory at 3.266.

[blythmrk]

Interested in this as I thought about this too (my Uk diff is whining) as the jdm/Euro 220mm 3.266 crown and pinion are discontinued.

My only concern is the quality I did speak to a local company about having them made but I never go around to splitting my diff to enable them to replicate it although they stated the cost would be considerable for a one off so if I had quite a few made they would be far cheaper per unit.

You can still get the US spec ones but they are a different ratio.

[Noz]

Can they ensure materials are the same?

 

I'd make a spare set and use the new set first. Ensuring you keep the backup rather than have an untested version as the spare.

 

Sounds like a great idea. May even lead to people having option of upgrading.

[mwilkinson]

I suspect you could have it made to a higher specification than OEM. The sites I've seen specialise in both motorsport and classic restoration. As such I don't think I would be overly concerned with the durability of the product, if made.

 

I suspect the stumbling block for me would be a lack of an original part in which to use as a basis for any backward engineering to take place.

 

Mark - you seem to be the ideal candidate being as you may have a spare (3.266 220mm) ring and pinion in another diff that could inspected and measured by one of these companies. Is this something you would be interested in doing?

 

I definitely think there is a market for this, although as with anything it's all about cost.

[mwilkinson]

There appears to be quite a few companies offering the manufacturing process. The more onerous task appears to be the design spec.

 

http://www.gibbsgears.com/gear-manufacturing/

 

http://www.davall.co.uk/davall-gears/gear-types-geometry/

 

https://www.ntgear.co.uk/gear-production/

[Scooter]

Wasn't Arnout the dutch guy getting V160 gears made third party? Might be worth a message as the diff bits are pretty much just a bigger version of gears?

 

I'd have though in this day and age a spare part could be 3d mapped and a cnc/milling programme made from that?

[mwilkinson]

Wasn't Arnout the dutch guy getting V160 gears made third party? Might be worth a message as the diff bits are pretty much just a bigger version of gears?

 

I'd have though in this day and age a spare part could be 3d mapped and a cnc/milling programme made from that?

 

I'll wing him a PM and see what happened.

 

Agree, 3d mapping would be the way to go.

[blythmrk]

I spoke with this company:

https://hpcgears.com/

I need to find out what is wrong with my UK Diff first. I just need time to get down and see Chris Wilson!

[Frank Bullitt]

I'll wing him a PM and see what happened.

 

Agree, 3d mapping would be the way to go.

 

Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply, he is about as much use as a Chocolate fireguard. I contacted Arnout about a few things (the UK dash panel for one) and he wasn't interested in supporting the RHD market. To take directs quotes from my email correspondence with him, "we complained about pricing too much" so he preferred to deal with the LHD market as "they spend more money on their cars" than us?!

 

Maybe because the ring and pinion are universal and a lot more money can be made from such a product he will be interested. Personally I would waste my time or energy.

 

As Scooter said 3D map and CNC the part, I wouldn't look outside of the UK unless I had to.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[mwilkinson]

I'd forgotten this was the same chap as the dash panels.

 

I'll email a few companies over the weekend and start to get a feel for what sort of costs might be involved. I think Mark was right in that a one off would be very expensive, but subsequent units would reduce in cost; so a batch would be the most viable option.

 

A batch is then only viable if we could get enough people interested.

[Frank Bullitt]

Unfortunately so.

 

Have you tried CW, I would be surprised if he didn't know a reputable company who could carry this out.

 

Had you thought about the 3.133:1 or are you trying to keep everything as per the VIN plate? Out of interest what profile are your rear tyres?

[mwilkinson]

I've not tried CW, but that is a good idea.

 

Yes and no ref the VIN, my car came with an A03B diff, not the B03B. However, ye, I'd like the 3.266 ratio so I'm reluctant to consider the US spec stuff.

 

I have seen that for £3.5K you can still get hold of a complete and new B03B diff. It may be cheaper to buy one of these vs have custom ring and pinion made.

 

I'm running 315/35R17 on the rears.

[Noz]

Could you not have someone design the part you need. If the mating parts were designed to work together, it would function. I suppose the challenge is then finding someone qualified for the role and reliable, experienced.

 

CentralScanning have done a lot of my 3D modelling. Highly recommended.

 

Giving a designer these models to then ensure they mate and function mechanical would be a good move.

 

3.5k for a diff! That's insane! I remember when spending 1k was typical. That's over 10k for a 6speed large diff setup, without a clutch or fitting! Man this Supra market is getting insane.

[mwilkinson]

Yep, sure is. Big money.

 

I remember buying a B03B from Jamiep many moons ago for £500.

[Frank Bullitt]

I've not tried CW, but that is a good idea.

 

Yes and no ref the VIN, my car came with an A03B diff, not the B03B. However, ye, I'd like the 3.266 ratio so I'm reluctant to consider the US spec stuff.

 

I have seen that for £3.5K you can still get hold of a complete and new B03B diff. It may be cheaper to buy one of these vs have custom ring and pinion made.

 

I'm running 315/35R17 on the rears.

 

Would you consider going back to a small case? Might be food for thought if the other route isn't viable. It would certainly be a cheaper way to get the ratio you want.

 

Yes, I believe they are still available if you want to pay for them. 3.5K is crazy money but if people are desperate for the part they will pay it.

 

I'm not sure if this info is of any use to you but running the 315/35/R17 with your current ratio is giving you an effective ratio of 3.59.

The same tyre size on the 3.266 gives you an effective ratio of 3.31.

The 3.133 ratio with your current tyre size will be and effective ratio of 3.18.

 

Going from your current 3.538 to a 3.266 (effectively a 3.31) will increase top end but at the expense of torque.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Frank Bullitt
Spelling. (see edit history)

[mwilkinson]

Food for thought, although I'd have to buy another new drive shaft, as one side of the large case wouldn't fit, but that wouldn't be too onerous to source. The big downside would be the additional cost of sourcing a TRD LSD or equivalent. I think this would make it far too expensive to consider.

 

That's some interesting info ref the relative ratios taking the wheels into account. I enjoy having the smaller rear wheel with the bigger tyre, so it's likely to stay.

 

I know the previous owner of the car changed the diff internals over to improve the lower performance of the car.

 

I suppose the US gearing would be a better match to get the car closer to the factory ratio.

 

I wonder if this is a pointless venture for me. Ultimately the car runs fine with the setup and I've never found it wanting for power etc..

[HadeS]

3.266 ring is easy to source

 

All what you need is Lexus LS400/LS430/GS430 diff

[blythmrk]

That’s a 200mm not 220mm

 

3.266 ring is easy to source

 

All what you need is Lexus LS400/LS430/GS430 diff

[mwilkinson]

That’s a 200mm not 220mm

 

Yeah, I've been looking too and have concluded the same.

[Frank Bullitt]

I wonder if this is a pointless venture for me. Ultimately the car runs fine with the setup and I've never found it wanting for power etc..

 

If it ain't broke don't fix it is definitely another train of thought. Were you disappointed with how the car performed when you bought her? I'm guessing not.

 

I was interested in her when Dan put her up for sale all those years ago but you beat me to a viewing This car is a well thought out build, right down to the most minute of details. That single kit is really something else too.

 

As I mentioned in my earlier post, if you change to the 3.266 you will loose torque (not sure how much) but will gain in top end. It all depends on what you want to use the car for. Knowing the build Dan undertook, I could imagine in his eyes it was the best compromise all round.

 

Have you used the diff ratio calculator to see exactly what the difference in speed is depending on which gear is selected and what difference there is in top speed when comparing the ratios to each other?

 

Food for thought, although I'd have to buy another new drive shaft, as one side of the large case wouldn't fit, but that wouldn't be too onerous to source. The big downside would be the additional cost of sourcing a TRD LSD or equivalent. I think this would make it far too expensive to consider.

 

With the scarcity & mental prices the larger diffs sell for (excluding the TRD internals and new larger shafts), l would think that you could get everything you want and still have money left over.

 

Worst case scenario pricing if going with the smaller diff;

 

Open A diff (£150)

Rebuild using new OEM parts (£400)

3.266 ring & pinion (£650)

Superior 1.5 way OS Giken LSD (£1400)

Billet diff cover for added bling "strength" (£800)

Edited February 28, 2019 by Frank Bullitt
Spelling. (see edit history)