Fuelling set up for higher hp

[Supra-love]

Just want to ask for advice really so I get the best setup.

 

Currently running bpu power 403hp on stock fuel lines and a 450 pump in standard hanger.

 

Will be going to a single conversion soon looking to push onto 750hp, stock internally apart from cams, I’ve just ordered the fuel line kit which is a single -8an feed and -6and return with updated filter and been told it’s capable of 1000hp, I will be adding flex fuel sensor in the return hooked up to the Syvecs s6gp ecu to also run meth in the tank.

 

Will I have to use twin 450 pumps or will one be enough? Keeping in mind future proofing and is there anything else I should be aware of regarding the lines or pump.

 

I’ll be keeping the stock intake but upgrading the injectors obviously but what ones would work best?

 

Thanks

[Sheefa]

If you plan on running E85 you will need two pumps mate. One 485 won’t handle the flow on ethanol at that power. Mine was running 750 at wheels and needed two, the second only really kicked in on ethanol high boost map.

 

Everything else sounds good.

 

Injector Dynamics or ASNU 1100cc really or higher for ultimate future proofing say 1500cc

 

 

 

[T2 MSW]

I would personally run twin pumps with the second controlled by the Syvecs to come on under load. To achieve this you will need a wiring harness to power the pumps separately with separate control lines from the ECU. Fuses/Relay and wiring needs to be of sufficient AWG as fuel pumps draw a lot of amps on full chat.

 

Do you REALLY need to do all this NO but you will be thankful you did if you ever have a fuel pump failure as will ensure your engine doesn't go bang. As Greg has said you will be on the limit of what one pump can handle.

 

If you have ordered the fuel kit I hope it was teflon lined to cope with the Ethenol. You also need to check the pumps and injectors are ethanol compatible as that stuff likes to eat seals. Fuel filter you will need to think about too - they don't really do ethenol comparable one you just have to change them more frequently.

Edited January 4, 2019 by T2 MSW (see edit history)

[Supra-love]

If you plan on running E85 you will need two pumps mate. One 485 won’t handle the flow on ethanol at that power. Mine was running 750 at wheels and needed two, the second only really kicked in on ethanol high boost map.

 

Everything else sounds good.

 

Injector Dynamics or ASNU 1100cc really or higher for ultimate future proofing say 1500cc

 

 

/QUOTE]

 

Yea I did think I would need two, currently it has 1 450 would you say two 485s instead of two 450s then?

 

Also the 1500cc injectors would those also be asnu? Would like to put the best in for future proofing.

 

Thanks mate

[Supra-love]

I would personally run twin pumps with the second controlled by the Syvecs to come on under load. To achieve this you will need a wiring harness to power the pumps separately with separate control lines from the ECU. Fuses/Relay and wiring needs to be of sufficient AWG as fuel pumps draw a lot of amps on full chat.

 

Do you REALLY need to do all this NO but you will be thankful you did if you ever have a fuel pump failure as will ensure your engine doesn't go bang. As Greg has said you will be on the limit of what one pump can handle.

 

If you have ordered the fuel kit I hope it was teflon lined to cope with the Ethenol. You also need to check the pumps and injectors are ethanol compatible as that stuff likes to eat seals. Fuel filter you will need to think about too - they don't really do ethenol comparable one you just have to change them more frequently.

 

Thank for the reply. I will definitely run twin pumps swapping out 450 for 485 in the standard hanger then.

And look into a wiring harness to power each pump separately via Syvecs any idea where I can get all that?

 

I have ordered the kit and they are Teflon braided lines. As for the filter how frequent would the change be?

[T2 MSW]

I ordered mine from the states - think it was a Racetronix harness but now I'm sure you would be able to find someone in the UK that makes them up.

[Mike2JZ]

If you are going for a nice fuel system don't forget to include some cash for an uprated fuel pressure regulator that is alcohol resistant and flows enough for your goals. Setting up your fuel rail to use a twin feed/1 return is also a good idea.

 

Whilst you are at it, be sure to also include a fuel pressure sensor so you have some visibility over your fuel system status and can setup a limp home strategy in the event of a pump failure/blockage etc via your ECU.

[Supra-love]

If you are going for a nice fuel system don't forget to include some cash for an uprated fuel pressure regulator that is alcohol resistant and flows enough for your goals. Setting up your fuel rail to use a twin feed/1 return is also a good idea.

 

Whilst you are at it, be sure to also include a fuel pressure sensor so you have some visibility over your fuel system status and can setup a limp home strategy in the event of a pump failure/blockage etc via your ECU.

 

The kit I’ve bought is a -8an single feed and -6an return. Haven’t bought the rail as of yet.

 

Will definitely use a fuel pressure regulator and sensor any pointers to which of these to use?

[Sheefa]

Yes definitely get the Fuel Pressure sensor, wired into Syvecs. Very good for fault finding too. Speak to Lee, can’t remember which one SRD normally use in their builds and in mine.

 

Two 450s would be fine but personally I would sell and go twin 485s mate.

 

 

 

 

 

[Supra-love]

Yes definitely get the Fuel Pressure sensor, wired into Syvecs. Very good for fault finding too. Speak to Lee, can’t remember which one SRD normally use in their builds and in mine.

 

Two 450s would be fine but personally I would sell and go twin 485s mate.

 

 

 

 

/QUOTE]

 

Excellent thank you sheefa

[Mike2JZ]

The kit I’ve bought is a -8an single feed and -6an return. Haven’t bought the rail as of yet.

 

Will definitely use a fuel pressure regulator and sensor any pointers to which of these to use?

 

You will want a fuel rail that uses -8an if you are planning on using ethanol. From your -8an feed from pump, you can get an -8an T piece that will allow you to run two -8an lines to either end of your fuel rail. The -6an return would then lead to your FPR. Your FPR output should then go to your flex sensor, and the output of that goes to your tank.

 

There's quite a few decent FPR's out there these days. Personally I've used AEM, Turbosmart, HKS, Aeromotive and never really had an issues, that said I don't tend to run e85 a lot so maybe someone has some good recommendations for that. Just don't use a replica FPR cause they always fail.

 

In terms of sensors, I believe Syvecs sell fuel pressure sensors.

[Supra-love]

You will want a fuel rail that uses -8an if you are planning on using ethanol. From your -8an feed from pump, you can get an -8an T piece that will allow you to run two -8an lines to either end of your fuel rail. The -6an return would then lead to your FPR. Your FPR output should then go to your flex sensor, and the output of that goes to your tank.

 

There's quite a few decent FPR's out there these days. Personally I've used AEM, Turbosmart, HKS, Aeromotive and never really had an issues, that said I don't tend to run e85 a lot so maybe someone has some good recommendations for that. Just don't use a replica FPR cause they always fail.

 

In terms of sensors, I believe Syvecs sell fuel pressure sensors.

 

Would -8an split to 2X -8an loose pressure? Wouldn’t it be -8an into 2X -6an?

 

Yea I was thinking to go with aeromotive then get the Syvecs fuel sensor plumbled into the toucan display

[Mike2JZ]

Would -8an split to 2X -8an loose pressure? Wouldn’t it be -8an into 2X -6an?

 

Yea I was thinking to go with aeromotive then get the Syvecs fuel sensor plumbled into the toucan display

 

You shouldn't have any fuel pressure issues using 2 485 pumps using that setup. If we are being really anal, ideally you would run twin feeds straight from your tank, but sometimes the extra cost isn't worth it depending on requirements.

[Supra-love]

You shouldn't have any fuel pressure issues using 2 485 pumps using that setup. If we are being really anal, ideally you would run twin feeds straight from your tank, but sometimes the extra cost isn't worth it depending on requirements.

 

He’s now going to do -8an to filter then 2X -6an to the rail for me.

 

Then -6an from rail to pressure regulator to flex fuel to hanger.

 

Where is the most optimal place to mount the flex fuel?

[Mike2JZ]

He’s now going to do -8an to filter then 2X -6an to the rail for me.

 

Then -6an from rail to pressure regulator to flex fuel to hanger.

 

Where is the most optimal place to mount the flex fuel?

 

Common place is next to where the stock fuel filter sits.

[Jellybean]

You will need something similar to below; AN8 / AN6 or twin pumps depending on power levels

 

Injectors , you need to run to spec (engine power output) , 1500 cc injector for 750 hp is too big, too large of an injector will cause issue with idling

 

For sensors , KA sensors are used by high majority of motorsport classes, they are reliable (fuel pressure ....) , the flexifuel sensor will also record Fuel temp ; I would mount the Flexi Fuel sensor in the engine bay out of the elements

 

Example of a setup

 

Bosch Motorsports FPR

o Fuel Pressure Regulator Mini A

o Pressure Range 2.2 to 3.5 bar

o Commercial Type No.: B 280 550 340-03

o http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/downloads/Products/9007202031846155.html

o Fuel compatibility Gasoline, E85, M15

 

• KA Fuel pressure sensor

• Billet top rail

• Walbro 485L Fuel Pump(s)

• PHR Fuel line hangers, allows you to neatly run lines under the car

• GM Flexifuel sensor AN6/8 quick connects

• Fuel Line , 6 meters of Hose E85 compatible

Earl's Pro Lite:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AN-8-AN8-AN08-Nylon-Braided-Stealth-Black-Hose-1m/380914237832?epid=1588563576&hash=item58b0420188:g:TQ0AAOxyZwpSXqKq

 

• Fuel Filter

o Bosch 0450905021 AN-6/8 (JIC -06) High Performance Fuel Filter 8 Micron In Black

 

Return line -- This allows you to use the OE Fuel hanger with AN fittings

 

• AN6/8 Banjo for Fuel Feed AN6/8 M12X1.25

 

 

Fuel components:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/torquesuk

 

 

Injectors

 

• ASNU ** These do a nice Plug N play harness for our OE loom , no need to splice in
  
• Injector Dynamics --ID X series is bosch motorsports injectors built to their spec, non-X Series is rebranded bosch motorsports injectors you can also get direct from bosch motorsports
  
• Fuel Injector clinic
  
• Bosch
  
• Siemens
  

 

 

Alot of the injectors are just re-branded Bosch motorsports injectors ,

 

Guide to Min Injector size vs hp

 

https://www.injectorsonline.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1.-Injectors-online-fuel-injector-size-chart-petrol-and-turbo.jpg

 

The engine power divided by the number of cylinders, gives you hp/cylinder.

As a rule of thumb you will need 5.5 cc fuel per hp.

 

For example a 600 hp eight cylinder engine requires an injector flow of at least

600/8 x 5.5 = 412 cc/min per injector.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Jellybean
Add in Fuel injector calc (see edit history)