Strange noise coming from engine suddenly

[and1c]

As a quick update all pressures fine engine tested with belts off and noise is from the engine. The mechanic doesn't want to deal with any more invasive issues but suspects the new pump blew away some of the old gunk masking whatever the cause of the problem was and I suspect it's true. I have already found a new mechanic who is happy to strip the engine down from the top and find and fix whatever faults he finds. It sounds high up to me but I will get him to check pistons and bores whilst it's in bits. Obviously I'll keep you all informed and it looks like another big bill coming my way but I'll keep plugging away till my car is strong. I get the impression that most others on here have reliable cars is this the case or are you all periodically suffering the kinds of failures I have had a cluster of? Some reassurance 25 year old Supes actually are reliable when well maintained would help me

 

Not good mate.

 

Was the car making a noise before it went in for the work? Sounds like something that could have happened after the 'work' was carried out if anything was done incorrectly. What parts did they fit (OE I would guess) and is the guy who did the work known in the supra world? Not that I am saying that it is the fault of whoever did the engine work, but it is a solid engine when left untampered, and I know of several stock untouched engines that have flown past 200k miles with little problem. I have a friend with a drift 2jz gte that hammers it relentlessly at 600rwhp on a stock bottom end and it's at 150k miles.

 

Not to doubt the mechanics in the area, but it may be wise to take it someone who really knows supras, so you don't end up with a run of bills from incorrect work. Particularly if it is engine internals work.

 

http://94supraturbos.synthasite.com/resources/95_TSRM_PDF_FILES/Oil%20Pump%20n%20FMS.pdf

shows the removal, service or fitting method on a 2jz pump, and there's a fair bit involved to do the job correctly.

 

Theres always the chance its big end damage caused by oil starvation, potentially due to oil pump related issues, if not, it seems massively coincedental.... Definately sounds like oil starvation as root cause looking at what you ahve posted

Edited August 16, 2018 by and1c (see edit history)

[nigelboyne]

As a quick update all pressures fine engine tested with belts off and noise is from the engine. The mechanic doesn't want to deal with any more invasive issues but suspects the new pump blew away some of the old gunk masking whatever the cause of the problem was and I suspect it's true. I have already found a new mechanic who is happy to strip the engine down from the top and find and fix whatever faults he finds. It sounds high up to me but I will get him to check pistons and bores whilst it's in bits. Obviously I'll keep you all informed and it looks like another big bill coming my way but I'll keep plugging away till my car is strong. I get the impression that most others on here have reliable cars is this the case or are you all periodically suffering the kinds of failures I have had a cluster of? Some reassurance 25 year old Supes actually are reliable when well maintained would help me

 

I think you should leave that engine in to supra specialist have it completely rebuilt keep what can be salvaged and replace what can't,

[Fulcrum2000]

It did indeed have an intermittent knock before the pump replacement this became more apparent when I had the aircon repaired which was US before and potentially added more load to the weak part which finally gave way at the first stage of bpu so far it's only departed with a restrictor and isn't even FCD'd yet so not exactly high load. Had two people check oil pressures which are fine so guess that rules out the pump and comes back to the more parts I fix in terms of valve seals FMS pumps filters etc leaving less and less old parts hence more pressure to fail? Guess it's like replacing 5 links of a 25 year old chain and then pulling it - the old links remaining suddenly cant take it.

 

Scooter: I bought the car at a distance mate and I knew it would be hassle but got it for 8k. I also knew the 25 year limit on exports would make Supras become more expensive. Even a zimilar example to the one i bought is now around 16k minimum and that is going to have many of my issues on top of the hefty initial price which is touching V8 M3 money now which I wouldn't rather have but are about the only car in my experience almost as nice to drive. It had to be a 93 as this was released on my 18th birthday and I feel an affinity with it. I guess the work is going to be 2 grand or so by the time it's finished but I can live with that and with me as an owner it's hopefully going to get stronger as I lavish services and care on it. Thats the plan anyway.

[Jellybean]

Sorry to hear ,

 

Do not going pulling off the head , I would do a leak down test first and get it to a garage who has experience with the cars

 

Even if it is 500 to get it dropped down , we see it again and again , cars going from one mechanic to another, turns in to a money pit , it inevitably ends up with a garage who specialises in the cars, issue diagnosed in a fraction of the time

[Fulcrum2000]

There's nobody within 50 miles of Lincolnshire who is an expert unfortunately and preciois few who arent terrified of it or I would. The new mechanic has his own rally team so hopefully we have some real old school experience this time

[Tricky-Ricky]

What is it with today's modern mechanics, they don't seem to be able to fault find without a diagnostic machine and an assortment of special tools, its an engine FFS and not a complicated one at that.

[Jellybean]

There's nobody within 50 miles of Lincolnshire who is an expert unfortunately and preciois few who arent terrified of it or I would. The new mechanic has his own rally team so hopefully we have some real old school experience this time

 

I drive over 150 miles to the specialist here

[Fulcrum2000]

It's just as bad with our 911 996. Only one place in the county that will look at it. The excusesthey come out with not to look at the Supra are crazy. That's when they don't just tell me to F off.... 10 years ago when I had the mr2 which was a right wazzock to work on everybody would drip new engines in or whatever. Seems you either need a specialist or an old school mechanic without 'the fear'. Hopefully I've just found one but let's see what happens

[and1c]

It's just as bad with our 911 996. Only one place in the county that will look at it. The excusesthey come out with not to look at the Supra are crazy. That's when they don't just tell me to F off.... 10 years ago when I had the mr2 which was a right wazzock to work on everybody would drip new engines in or whatever. Seems you either need a specialist or an old school mechanic without 'the fear'. Hopefully I've just found one but let's see what happens

 

Someone familiar with supra engines is very useful for internal rebuilds. Granted, they are only straight sixes but familiarity with them can save you money... I have taken cars around the country on a flatbed for remaps, resprays etc, or had them collected on flatbed!

Edited August 16, 2018 by and1c (see edit history)

[Fulcrum2000]

It's not the complexity of the engine it's the age of the car and the fact it's Japanese that puts people off. A mechanic thinks they'll fix one problem and just by disturbing old engine parts create two more in the process. I'm very reasonable and understand this isn't just likely to happen but until the weaknesses are replaced it definitely will. I guess I just didn't expect them to all come days apart but once I work through them I'll have a cracking legend of a car, I think I just have to bear that in mind. I would guess after this annus horribilus that might be achieved and the respray will have to wait a little longer! Maybe I should buy that 1000 hp 2jz on eBay and drop it in. Imagine the problems you'd have with that!

[Dave]

I don’t know if there already is but a list of Supra specialist mechanics UK wide ,would be very helpfull when problems occur,we already know the main guys on here ,but there maybe others we don’t know about .

[PJJ]

I don’t know if there already is but a list of Supra specialist mechanics UK wide ,would be very helpfull when problems occur,we already know the main guys on here ,but there maybe others we don’t know about .

 

Very good point there. A sticky of them on here would be very useful.

For me my closest is Littlenum at performance@hart. He's an hour away but I'm more than happy to travel that for a specialist who knows his onions.

[Frank Bullitt]

Surely that is the whole point behind the Authorised Traders section on the forum?

[Al Massey]

Surely that is the whole point behind the Authorised Traders section on the forum?

 

Correct

We only advertise the traders that pay to trade on here.

[Fulcrum2000]

But I appreciate the forums rules but wouldnt people who know reliable mechanics in each area sharing info be absolutely invaluable to all Supe owners rather than just those who had paid to advertise? Especially if they had had a bad experience? I could tell all right now of the three worst mechanics in my area including one who once left a spanner in the pop up light mechanism of my MR2!

[Tricky-Ricky]

Not sure what part of Lincolnshire your in fella, but if you like i will ask my neighbors son if he has the time and is willing to deal with a 2JZ motor, if so i'll give you his number he runs a garage in Kings Lynn and he is very good i have directed members of the 350Z forum in his direction before now, he is what i would call a proper old school mechanic.

[Al Massey]

But I appreciate the forums rules but wouldnt people who know reliable mechanics in each area sharing info be absolutely invaluable to all Supe owners rather than just those who had paid to advertise? Especially if they had had a bad experience? I could tell all right now of the three worst mechanics in my area including one who once left a spanner in the pop up light mechanism of my MR2!

 

I see your point, but traders have to stick to strict forum rules.

Also if anything goes wrong, they have to deal with the forum, so it’s in their best interests.

 

Advertising business who aren’t traders are then getting free advertisements and don’t have to stick to the rules.

 

Which could lead to current traders no longer wanting to remain as traders.

[Al Massey]

We also have to be careful of what we say negatively about other traders as it has hit the forum a few times with legal action.

 

The most obvious one is the company that sells Supra’s that we’re not allowed to name any of the names they have operated with.

 

We can mention the fence though

[Fulcrum2000]

Ok so as an update i took it to the mechanic and my car has 'the black death' which I'm told of course involves a full rebuild but also cleaning of all the non broken parts and replacing the odd broken part which is causing the noise (they suspect crank area but are still in the process of removing the engine). The mechanic says its going to take about a month because all the parts need cleaning and broken ones sourced, is that about right or does that seem long to anyone? I've checked him out and he has an immaculate reputation both online and in the area and runs a rally team in his spare time (there was an evo in bits in there when I clattered in) so he will hopefully be doing a five star job. Just wondered if it seemed like a long time to anyone on here? I am guessing about 5 grand is that about accurate if anyone has experience? It's definitely worth it as I want to keep the car for a very long time and correct me if I'm wrong but with this level of rebuild all my compression issues etc will all get sorted out too as he puts new rings etc in?

[Ric]

Why didn't you take it to a specialist? Now you're deeper in with somebody who obviously doesn't know the engine.

 

"The black death" in other words he doesn't know, he just knows it's broken and wants to charge you all in the world to fix something it probably isn't.

[Fulcrum2000]

Oh he knows the engine, he's even fitted one in a BMW drift car before. The black death isnt debatable as to whether it has it, I had my original mechanic tell me it had it, the mechanic who fitted my oil pump told me and now the new Rally guy, it came as no surprise. I'm more surprised its going to take so long to fix is that normal?

[Tricky-Ricky]

I am inclined to agree with Ric here, did you not ask him just what he means by his term "black death" i have certainly never heard of the term, sound bullcrap to me, from what i have gathered from all your previous descriptions of the problems i would say its a big or little end knock, probably big end, and as its not seized all its going to need is a crank regrind and new bearings, wont hurt to strip it fully and check and give the oil galleries a clean, but as your not going for big power there is no real need to start replacing other parts just for the sake of it

[Fulcrum2000]

Oh yes its no BC term Tricky, I actually had an old Beemer die from it years ago so it wasnt a new one to me. But if you google black death in engines you'll see about a cajillion pics of it actually happening too. Also just one of the millions of links to services to deal with it etc is here:

 

https://svsautocare.com.au/blogs/vehicle-maintenance/black-death/

 

My understanding of it is basic at best but it seems to be when a car isnt well maintained with oil changes and filters etc and especially when stood as well (mine was sat in a garage for 4 years and then did 40km in the next year!) when someone starts to run it again (the owners previous to me) with the shit old oil and filters it starts to carbonize in the block and hey presto. I got it and have been fixing everything slowly, had several oil changes, filters etc but until you strip an engine you dont know how bad the issue is, some cars last years with this so the approach is wait for it to fail as the remedial treatment is a rebuild anyway.

 

What really cooked it was the oil pump, putting a new one on gave it the power to take some of that carbonized shit off the engine walls and start to fookay everything. Mechanic bashing aside (but we all love to bash them) if you look at my symptoms it all makes perfect sense, smokey valve seals, oil strainer being the most blocked up ever seen by the second mechanic (with BD) sudden failure with that full power pump but no problems with oil pressure. Its unfortunately the correct diagnosis but is a month a long time to clean and refit most parts of the engine? Perhaps not thinking about it. According to all 3 mechanics once this is done it is basically a new engine though inside.

[and1c]

I would just get a second hand good engine and be done with it. You could end up balls deep in expenditure and still have problems down the line. It's hard to know without knowing where you have taken the car, but a 'generic' rally man doesn't mean that he knows the ins and outs of Supras to a full engine rebuild level. I would either get the engine shipped to a specialist engine rebuilder like Stanwood Engineering in Doncaster (who really know their onions as I have used them on several occasions) or buy a used engine and get it serviced and stick it in and run it.

 

Sounds like your already committed with the current route though. You could always get a used engine and get it delivered to the shop, would probably be cheaper and you could then sell your current 'black death' engine for spare or repair to recoup some cost.

[rider]

"The black death" in other words he doesn't know, he just knows it's broken and wants to charge you all in the world to fix something it probably isn't.

 

Black death is very easily spotted as a black sludge or black hard varnish build up caused by PMA VI improvers dropping out of the oil and then depositing. VI improvers are thick polymers so when they drop out of the oil its never good news for the oil galleries in the engine and to bearing surfaces. Its usually caused by infrequent servicing leading to high acidity in the oil or poor engine crankcase breathing on a worn engine suffering blow by gasses. Its not that frequent these days, being more of a nineties problem. But then again, these cars were around in the 90's so this car may have had poor oil flow issues for a long time.