Strange noise coming from engine suddenly

[Fulcrum2000]

I agree and would have bought an engine but unfortunately because of their legendary status they've all been bought up and stuck in other cars or Supes when they need one. Only ones left are 3k or above and done more miles than mine and could have all the inherent problems of the one I am taking out. Surely its more sensible to have the engine rebuilt and therefore checked then have a mystery recon unit jammed in and hope for the best? If I were selling it I would consider it but I want this car around for life if possible?

[Al Massey]

Wow £5K!

 

I would buy a second engine and fit that.

Then strip this engine in your own time and work out what is wrong.

You can either rebuild it yourself slowly or strip for parts and get some money back.

But a second hand engine would be the cheapest option for now anyway.

 

 

And you don't need to take the supra engine to a supra specialist.

It is just an engine, nothing magical or special about it, it is an engine that follows the basic rules of engineering.

[Fulcrum2000]

I totally agree with the engine thing, it is after all a normal well made 6 cylinder engine, if I had loads of aspirations to get it up to a million HP then maybe but wht you need is an old school mechanic whose seen all this sort of things before to fix it. I cant find a 2JZ GTE for less than 3k though, surely the savings just arent going to be there doing it this way are they? I know its possible I can sell on the second one but in the meantime I have a whacking great engine in my front room to use for a coffee table..... I dont think you can get a decent GTE anymore second hand unfortunately, they're all just too old. And of course many of them on ebay etc will be ones exactly like mine, someone needed another and is now selling the one with its faults to me.

[Al Massey]

I totally agree with the engine thing, it is after all a normal well made 6 cylinder engine, if I had loads of aspirations to get it up to a million HP then maybe but wht you need is an old school mechanic whose seen all this sort of things before to fix it. I cant find a 2JZ GTE for less than 3k though, surely the savings just arent going to be there doing it this way are they? I know its possible I can sell on the second one but in the meantime I have a whacking great engine in my front room to use for a coffee table..... I dont think you can get a decent GTE anymore second hand unfortunately, they're all just too old. And of course many of them on ebay etc will be ones exactly like mine, someone needed another and is now selling the one with its faults to me.

 

Well I just sold my GTE engine with 850cc injectors, Precision 6262 turbo, manifold, downpipe and exhaust with some bling and carbon bits for £6K.

 

So yes, whilst spending £5K on a rebuild will give you a complete refreshed engine but it is a lot of money.

If it was me, I would look for a second hand engine and fit that, then strip your current engine and try to find the fault.

 

It is swings and roundabouts though.

[Scooter]

Ah I was just about to post up about surely the guy doing your valve stem seals told you the inside wasn't the best. He apparently did as did the oil pump guy, so the lesson here to others is research before buying (looking into a oil filler cap is easy) and then research again based on advice to see if you need to spend more to save money (the head work will be redone, oil pump may be ok but labour charge wasted.

 

Black death is a thing, I saw a 60K mile VVTI back in the mid 00's and inside the oil filler cap was very crusty carbon, extended interval, poor oil contributes, the two together really bad, one of my early tt's had it bad.

 

http://www.supramania.com/forum/threads/jdm-2jzgte-oil-sludge-pics-should-i-keep-this-motor.122979/

 

Used engines are becoming very hard to come by, the prices going up and who is to say how much life is left in it, at what stage of decay it's at, they all wear out after all.

 

I personally would check out performancehart, at least I believe you got the car before prices went crazy, I dare say you won't be the last to buy into a tired car and futures ones will be £15K+ into the car before they start....

 

OP hope you get it all sorted and eventually enjoy a long period of low cost ownership!

Edited September 19, 2018 by Scooter (see edit history)

[Chris Wilson]

Did you run it with the auxillary belt off (no more than 4 minutes at idle with a cold engine start)? It sounds to be like a typical belt tensioner arm rubber bushing broken up I see this a lot these days.

[Fulcrum2000]

Hi Scooter, cheers, eventually I will crack this. So are people thinking about 5k for the rebuild with BD? I am preparing myself for this anyway so might be lower or more. I agree if engines were a grand, slam a new one in, but they arent and lets be honest, most available will be little better than the one failing on a 25 year old car. And yes, both mechanics told me it had this and it wouldliely do damage, both told me the only way to cure it was a rebuild and full clean, and both said whats the point when to solve it is the same process as to let it fail all but a tiny amount of extra cost on the odd bit failing itself. And just to remind everyone, both mechanics flat out refused to do any more than valve seals in one case or oil pump in another. if they'd said yes it needs a rebuild lets do it I would have gone ofr it then but it wasnt an option. And yes, I did get it before prices went cuckoo so at least once its done it will only be about what a bad one now is to buy assuming its no more than 5k? Anyone have a mint GTE in their back pocket for a grand

[Fulcrum2000]

Hi Chris, yes all the belt off tests were done, oil pressures etc and all thats fine. I believe you are in the rebuild game, what sort of figure would you think this will run to? Would it take a month? I've just had the original mechanic tell me it could well take this long so its looking accurate to me but anyone had this done and what did it cost?

[keron]

sounds possible that whoever fitted the oil pump didn't prime it and just bolted it on maybe as it is? that can cause this kind of damage pretty quickly.

[Chris Wilson]

I would not give a fixed price as any internal damage is as yet unknown, but a proper rebuild with new pistons and a rebore, assuming the crank and rods are fine and the head doesn't need the guides linering would be at least 5K assuming you were not to just bring me the engine out of the car. Anyone giving a fixed price sight unseen is either naieve or very brave If the crank is marked up I have some excellent used ones here. It's not just the engine rebuild it's all the stuff that SHOULD be replaced alongside the rebuild to ensure reliability... Do it once and do it right I also have new OE pumps in stock.

[Scooter]

sounds possible that whoever fitted the oil pump didn't prime it and just bolted it on maybe as it is? that can cause this kind of damage pretty quickly.

 

Interesting, what priming is required? are we talking simply turning over on the starter without an ignition source for a bit.

[Tricky-Ricky]

I haven't heard of "black death" as a maniacal term for sludge build up and i have been working on and off on all kinds of engines for the last 50 years,

and TBH i haven't seen a case of serious sludge build up where it leads to an engines demise since the early 80s, with modern oils it should be a thing of the past, since you have had the engine worked on before and sludge build up has never been mentioned previously i would still call bull-crap to that diagnosis!

[Tricky-Ricky]

Interesting, what priming is required? are we talking simply turning over on the starter without an ignition source for a bit.

 

Standard practice to at least turn any engine over without firing until the pressure gauge shows positive pressure, or the oil light goes out, if fitting or had the oil pump worked on.

[Scooter]

Standard practice to at least turn any engine over without firing until the pressure gauge shows positive pressure, or the oil light goes out, if fitting or had the oil pump worked on.

 

Yeah it just sounded like Keron was talking of something more involved, just checking....

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

since you have had the engine worked on before and sludge build up has never been mentioned previously i would still call bull-crap to that diagnosis!

 

He's said both mechanics mentioned it......

 

Pics would be ideal.

[Chris Wilson]

Interesting, what priming is required? are we talking simply turning over on the starter without an ignition source for a bit.

 

 

New OE pumps have a heavy oil in them so they should prime "as is" but it's good practice to pour some oil into them before fitting and prime the engine oil galleries from an external pump. Crank over with no plugs in until the oil pressure light is extinguished for a good few seconds. I still see a few 2JZ's with a lot of carbonized oil them. Either cheap oil, overheated oil or just plain lack of oil changes, but nothing like the old CVH Fords when they first went to the abortion called PCV valves and oil technology was lagging behind for the average user. Some literally had the cam box solidly packed with carbonized oil and you had to literally dig it out to find the bolts....

[Scooter]

I see ta, belt and braces on something this important makes sense.

[keron]

Interesting, what priming is required? are we talking simply turning over on the starter without an ignition source for a bit.

 

I always manually pour oil into them and turn them first.

[Fulcrum2000]

So we know its BD from three mechanics so lets not dispute that. A rebuild would have been done at the first mechanic had they not refused to do any more than valve seals, and the second. I checked with the second mechanics just now on the phone and the pump was primed (I dont have to take their word for it they have onsite CCTV and have actually offered to show me the whole fitting if I want). So it isnt that but the pump seems to have caused it. Now its a matter of letting the third mechanic actually strip it down and go from there I'll keep you informed as I suspect others out there will have BD and not even know as it seems to be a very misunderstood situation and one that most thought ended decades ago.

[Fulcrum2000]

So would we all agree that buying a recon engine would probably be a false economy considering I'm keeping the car for as long as possible?

[Chris Wilson]

I see a lot of "SD" (silicone death) where excessive silicone instant gasket sealant has broken free internally and choked the oil pump pick up strainer, on all sorts of different engines. People seem to think more is better and less likely to allow leaks, whereas more is death to engines in reality

[Chris Wilson]

So would we all agree that buying a recon engine would probably be a false economy considering I'm keeping the car for as long as possible?

 

As my pal is often heard to say "Recon or real con"? With your own unit you know if it's been dramatically overheated, over revved or generally thrashed to the point major components have had sustained abuse, to a large extent. A rebuilt engine from a reputable sourced based on *sound core re-used components* should be no different to having your own unit properly fettled all being equal

[Fulcrum2000]

Yes Chris I tend to agree, it almost always is better the devil you know. I've had 43 cars in 21 years of driving, and every time a new engine went in, the car was worse in my experience. Ok I am going to go rebuild on my unit and I'll let you all know what was the root cause when its a huge 3d jigsaw.

[Tricky-Ricky]

I see a lot of "SD" (silicone death) where excessive silicone instant gasket sealant has broken free internally and choked the oil pump pick up strainer, on all sorts of different engines. People seem to think more is better and less likely to allow leaks, whereas more is death to engines in reality

 

Very true, and apply s double to bike engines, the advent of orange Hermetite in the late 70s its cause the demise of so many classic bike engines.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Yes Chris I tend to agree, it almost always is better the devil you know. I've had 43 cars in 21 years of driving, and every time a new engine went in, the car was worse in my experience. Ok I am going to go rebuild on my unit and I'll let you all know what was the root cause when its a huge 3d jigsaw.

 

43 cars needing 43 engine replacements....somebody saw you coming my friend,

On the subject of sludge, i find it very hard to believe that any Japanese import would be suffering from this as servicing is very easy and second nature to the almost anal Japanese, you can find a dedicated oil change/service garage as easy as you can find fuel in Japan, and as i said before modern oils are very very resistant to forming sludge, i still call the "black death" diagnosis as a money making exercise, but then your never going to know for sure now.

Should have taken it to Chris or Lee P at least then you would know for sure what was the cause and it would get fixed properly, but good luck anyway.

[Fulcrum2000]

43 cars owned Tricky not 43 engines replaced mate I'm glad people on here have experienced it and Chris still does which along with all the mechanics made me feel better about the diagnosis. No offence to you at all Tricky just going on what better trained people tell me and tell me in numbers. And it's easy to see how I got it after near five years of storage then some idiot buying it and dragging it for a year before selling it to me.

 

How many engines have I had replaced? Two MR2s, a Supra Mk 3, Mondeo, two Prelude VTECs, BMW 3 series 3l and most amusingly a Metro (hey dont judge I loved that little car).