Supra MkV launch and updates thread

[Bobbeh]

That is Zupr4 base model to Z4 base model. Apples to Apples comparison

 

Fair enough.

 

Looking forward to seeing the GT4 model myself.. might be a different beast to the standard version - if they made it a production car.

[Frank Bullitt]

Most of the extra is taxing people who want the supra name however.

 

I think that is pretty much a given but 15K for a badge Do you think Toyota even bother to ask a customers name or offer up lube before bend them over the office desk?

 

Combine the above with fitting a MKIV rear wing (a wing that served a functional purpose on the MKIV as was seen in the wind tunnels) onto the MKV with what one assumes involved no R&D on their part and a set of halo ring facelift rears. It all screams of sheer desperation to be accepted.

[Ric]

Prices in USA are;

 

BMW Z4: $50.695.

 

Zupra: $52, 695.

 

$2,000 (£1,500) more.

 

Which exposes that Toyota U.K. are extracting the urine by an inexcusable £17,224.

 

Your addition and subtraction are wearing the wrong trousers.

 

Why is that? you are saying the USA is 17,224 gbp cheaper. It just isn't?

 

52,625 to GBP (40323.79) + Lets say what, 10% usa sales tax? middle road = $57,887 (GBP 44296.87) Zupra: £52,695. = £8399 more expensive in the UK on a direct conversion.

 

Now consider the car at the USA price - 40323.79 + VAT gives us £48387 which means the UK is getting charged a whopping £4308 more. probably factor in some other silly EU taxation or stricter emissions laws for EU models.

 

So the actual figure is £4308. Not 17k.

[Frank Bullitt]

Looking forward to seeing the GT4 model myself.. might be a different beast to the standard version - if they made it a production car.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with all the R&D. BMW's have been notoriously expensive to mod so hopefully now with the Toyota guys getting involved we will see great things happening. The engine seems a potential beast in the making.

 

I wonder if the GT4 will be at Le Mans?

[David P]

Why is that? you are saying the USA is 17,224 gbp cheaper. It just isn't?

 

52,625 to GBP (40323.79) + Lets say what, 10% usa sales tax? middle road = $57,887 (GBP 44296.87) Zupra: £52,695. = £8399 more expensive in the UK on a direct conversion.

 

Now consider the car at the USA price - 40323.79 + VAT gives us £48387 which means the UK is getting charged a whopping £4308 more. probably factor in some other silly EU taxation or stricter emissions laws for EU models.

 

So the actual figure is £4308. Not 17k.

 

 

Thank you for confirming that you don't know the difference between addition and subtraction.

 

Frank reckons the difference is £15k more in U.K?

[Ric]

Thank you for confirming that you don't know the difference between addition and subtraction.

 

Frank reckons the difference is £15k more in U.K?

 

Feel free to explain it rather than just giving silly jibes?

 

A USA Car at £40323 + our 20% VAT is £48323 which needs a £4308 markup to reach your £52,625 price. With the USA (without sales tax also) cost plus your 17K you'd be at £57,323 for a UK model which it isn't.

 

Im shit at maths but not that shit.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Ric (see edit history)

[David P]

I didn't make the prices up, they're prices that I found on the net.

Same with Frank, but he's a better shopper and found it for 2K less.

Either/or, the prices given show a minimum of £15k more in U.K.

 

If you're not wearing The Wrong Trousers, maybe Toyota UK is wearing The Emperors New Clothes?

 

http://www.shortkidstories.com/story/th-emperors-new-clothes/

Edited December 18, 2019 by David P (see edit history)

[Ric]

Perhaps Frank can explain then.

 

It makes no sense to compare the UK price directly with the USA one. They have sales tax and we have VAT. Whichever way i do it its between 4500/5500 more in the UK never 15k

[trevorc]

I use this to convert pounds into usd, it gives better rates that you reserve with all fees clearly laid out if it helps.

 

https://transferwise.com/invite/a/trevorc178

 

 

[David P]

Perhaps Frank can explain then.

 

He already has?

 

Would you like a cup of tea?

[Ric]

He already has?

 

Would you like a cup of tea?

 

Where? if you mean this post:

 

Just looking at Toyota and BMW UK and US pricing on their websites for a basic model, they do seem a little off unless I am missing something.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234118[/ATTACH] BMW Z4 UK £37,115 or $48,736.48

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234119[/ATTACH] BMW Z4 USA $49,700 or £37,848.76

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234120[/ATTACH] Toyota Supra UK £52,695 or $69,194.91

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234121[/ATTACH] Toyota Supra USA $49,990 or £38,069.61

 

 

It doesn't explain much other than a direct conversion of prices?

[Frank Bullitt]

Perhaps Frank can explain then.

 

It makes no sense to compare the UK price directly with the USA one. They have sales tax and we have VAT. Whichever way i do it its between 4500/5500 more in the UK never 15k

 

Petes post piqued my curiosity so I specifically looked at the base model on the UK and USA websites for Toyota and BMW.

 

I took a screenshot of the pricing from each website (attached under this) and converted the prices using https://www.xe.com which will obviously change as it was done at yesterdays rates.

 

I can't explain it but it's there for all to see in black and white.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234118[/ATTACH] BMW Z4 UK £37,115 converts to $48,736.48

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234119[/ATTACH] BMW Z4 USA $49,700 converts to £37,848.76

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234120[/ATTACH] Toyota Supra UK £52,695 converts to $69,194.91

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234121[/ATTACH] Toyota Supra USA $49,990 converts to £38,069.61

Edited December 18, 2019 by Frank Bullitt
Links added. (see edit history)

[Ric]

Ok but you're converting the USA straight to UK pounds and saying the car is 15k cheaper? where is our 20% vat added on that price?

 

The USA car would also never be that price as you need to add their sales tax which i estimated 10% it can be between 5 and 15% depending on state

[Mo Reviews]

I think those prices are 'on the road'. I.e. inclusive of all applicable taxes in the relevant jurisdictions.

[Ric]

It says MSRP which is just the retailers recommended price. Sales tax and other taxes are still applicable. One thing you can't escape in the USA is tax and they charge you for everything.

 

If you try and spec a car on the USA page it costs you an extra 1k just in processing and delivery.

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Ric (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

Ok but you're converting the USA straight to UK pounds and saying the car is 15k cheaper? where is our 20% vat added on that price?

 

The USA car would also never be that price as you need to add their sales tax which i estimated 10% it can be between 5 and 15% depending on state

 

I don't know what you want me to say. This isn't smoke and mirrors and all the information is taken directly from each manufactures website. BMW list that as their OTR price, what ever that means. If this includes tax or not, well your guess is as good as mine. But could it be listed (trades description) as an OTR price if it wasn't. i.e. tax was on top.

 

If you start taking tax into consideration then that will only increase the difference unless you are saying the BMW price doesn't include VAT at 20% whilst Toyota does.

 

Something doesn't add up and it doesn't look good.

[Mo Reviews]

On the road or OTR for short is how much a customer should expect to pay before leaving the dealership with their new car. This figure will naturally include all applicable fees, charges and taxes.

[Ric]

I don't know what you want me to say. This isn't smoke and mirrors and all the information is taken directly from each manufactures website. BMW list that as their OTR price, what ever that means. If this includes tax or not, well your guess is as good as mine. But could it be listed (trades description) as an OTR price if it wasn't. i.e. tax was on top.

 

If you start taking tax into consideration then that will only increase the difference unless you are saying the BMW price doesn't include VAT at 20% whilst Toyota does.

 

Something doesn't add up and it doesn't look good.

 

So you're saying the 15k price difference is between the Supra and the Z4. Makes sense, the BMW price will be the bog standard 2.0 (from) as mentioned the "supra" comparison starts at 49k in the UK.

 

Im talking about a USA Supra and UK Supra.

[Mo Reviews]

Dude, the difference calculated is between what Toyota USA charges their customers and what Toyota UK charges theirs.

[Ric]

Dude, the difference calculated is between what Toyota USA charges their customers and what Toyota UK charges theirs.

 

Show me where it says OTR on the supra picture? it's only on the BMW page what shows that, see my last post...

[Frank Bullitt]

So you're saying the 15k price difference is between the Supra and the Z4. Makes sense, the BMW price will be the bog standard 2.0 (from) as mentioned the "supra" comparison starts at 49k in the UK.

 

Im talking about a USA Supra and UK Supra.

 

Buying a base model BMW Z4 in the UK OTR (according to their website) is £37,115

Buying a base model Toyota Supra in the UK (according to their website) is £52,695

 

Buying a base model BMW Z4 in the USA OTR (according to their website) is $49,700

Buying a base model Toyota Zupr4 in the USA (according to their website) is $49,990

 

If you convert the price of buying a UK Z4 to buying a USA Z4 there is a £220.85 or $200 difference but if you convert the price of a UK Zupr4 to buying a USA Zupr4 there is a £15,580 or $20,458.43 difference.

 

Ergo it costs you more to buy a UK spec MKV than it does as US spec MKV.

 

It can't be down to tax and shipping, sorry. No way.

[Ric]

but the UK image you have of the z4 is the Base model 2.0 "starting from"

 

Comparing a 2.0 Z4 in the UK to a "Zm4 Similar" Supra is going to have a obvious price hike?

 

The "Supra" comparable Zm4 is 49k+ in the UK? again, 2/3k difference not 15k?

 

You cannot just convert the USA supra price to a UK price, you're missing 20% VAT on the USA price?

[Frank Bullitt]

but the UK image you have of the z4 is the Base model 2.0 "starting from"

 

Yes, as I have said all along. I am comparing the base no frills model from each manufacturer.

 

Comparing a 2.0 Z4 in the UK to a "Zm4 Similar" Supra is going to have a obvious price hike?

 

Yes but why when they are essentially the same car?

 

The "Supra" comparable Zm4 is 49k+ in the UK? again, 2/3k difference not 15k?

 

Again, i'm going base model vs. base model.

 

You cannot just convert the USA supra price to a UK price, you're missing 20% VAT on the USA price?

 

Why not? I just did. What about the states in the USA where tax isn't applicable or it has less than the UK VAT rate of 20%?

[Ric]

Yes, as I have said all along. I am comparing the base no frills model from each manufacturer.

 

You can't compare a 2.0 Z4 to the supra though surely? completely different engines and spec. You'd have to compare it to the M Spec M40i which is £49k or $64k

 

Yes but why when they are essentially the same car?

 

That's like saying an Astra Active should be the same price as a Astra VXR?

 

Again, i'm going base model vs. base model.

 

The base models are vastly different though not in the same league.

 

Why not? I just did. What about the states in the USA where tax isn't applicable or it has less than the UK VAT rate of 20%. That would make the price difference greater than it already is.

 

Because you are saying that a USA spec supra is only $49,990 / £38,069.61

 

Let's say it was. Without Tax. You still couldn't compare that to a UK car which has 20% VAT on the cost? it would make the UK Car at LEAST - £38,069.61 +20% = £45,682 not even counting other factors

[Frank Bullitt]

You can't compare a 2.0 Z4 to the supra though surely? completely different engines and spec. You'd have to compare it to the M Spec M40i which is £49k or $64k

 

As I have always said I am comparing base model to base model.

 

That's like saying an Astra Active should be the same price as a Astra VXR?

 

No it's not. One goes out the door with it's head removed wearing a BMW badge and the other leaves through another door with a couple of bumps and a false skin wearing a Toyota badge. Last time I looked, Astra is an Astra as an Astra is an Astra.

 

The base models are vastly different though not in the same league.

 

If Toyota choses to offer a higher spec base model compared with BMW then that is their choice. This has always been about the cost of getting "into" the car when comparing base model vs base model.

 

Because you are saying that a USA spec supra is only $49,990 / £38,069.61

 

Let's say it was. Without Tax. You still couldn't compare that to a UK car which has 20% VAT on the cost? it would make the UK Car at LEAST - £38,069.61 +20% = £45,682 not even counting other factors

 

Like the costs of shipping the car from Austria to the USA?