rg500 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Need I say more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazuk Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) The mkiv was £44k ish in 94 akin to about 80k ish now. So it was an expensive car back then and no way could Toyota compete in that market with any Supra. Let's face it the Lexus people want as the next Supra is over 100k. Only one flaw in your statement is that Nissan managed to bring the R35 out at around 70 grand and that is a great car. If Toyota wanted to they should of used the development from LFA to produce a supra not only that it would of helped them recoup there losses on the development of that car. But in all reality Toyota have lost there way the range of cars built in the 80,s and 90,s was brilliant look at them now building cars like that damn prius - - - Updated - - - The mkiv was £44k ish in 94 akin to about 80k ish now. So it was an expensive car back then and no way could Toyota compete in that market with any Supra. Let's face it the Lexus people want as the next Supra is over 100k. Only one flaw in your statement is that Nissan managed to bring the R35 out at around 70 grand and that is a great car. If Toyota wanted to they should of used the development from LFA to produce a supra not only that it would of helped them recoup there losses on the development of that car. But in all reality Toyota have lost there way the range of cars built in the 80,s and 90,s was brilliant look at them now building cars like that damn prius But you can understand why Nissan to this day still wont say if the R35 if profitable , many car journalists say the production costs of something so technical and all that time with it in the wind tunnel is not cheap they would have to be sold at around 140k to make profit which kind of makes sense when you see the price of a car that every part has been built from scratch with that much tech, the only thing that might of saved the day the r35 is a hit although I remember when it first came out it was slagged off to death on the gtr forum people saying its not a skyline and its ugly and the last real gtr was a r34 that all seems long forgotten about now. Some sort of aerotop model would be cool but doubt it will happen Edited January 16, 2019 by chazuk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeyboy2k Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Not sure if I want to like this car or not. Like everyone on here, having a close affinity to the mkiv, I wished for a great mkv. This car doesn't appear to be great. First impressions are that it looks like a re-skinned Z4 (because it is), with the current fashion of needless bolt-on fussy body work. Looks awkward in the photos, but maybe better in the flesh? My current fun car is a Lotus Evora, which I think looks a bit challenged in photos. However, in the flesh I believe is a very well proportioned, good looking car that never fails to get positive comments - a mini supercar that often gets mistaken for a Ferrari or Lambo by those that don't 'know' cars. Hope for the mkv? Perhaps. I think it could look OK in lairy yellow, with a BGW, some better wheels and something done with the bumpers. Interior. Anodyne, dreary BMW. No hiding from it. My daily driver is a BMW, and whilst it is OK, has very little excitement factor and is lower quality than a Lexus. But the mkv is a 'Toyota' and not a Lexus. It would have to be put up with. How will it perform and drive? ..... Probably better than most mkivs. I loved my mkivs, but times move on, and this will likely handle much better. The relative 'low' power of the launch car would probably beat a BPU mkiv in all situations. I imagine a remapped mkv would probably beat single mkivs in situations other than a rolling drag. Real world, probably a better car. (But not a legend). If I had 50k, would I buy one? No. I never buy new cars any way, but the mkv has a whole hint of 'meh' about it. It had impossible expectations to follow. I think the Toyota/Lexus positions are slightly changed from the early 90's. A Toyota can not be perceived to be as good as a Lexus nowadays, whereas back then Lexus were more concentrated on the luxury cruisers and stronger Toyota sports cars could exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayr Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Need I say more when compared like this, they all look very similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Some sort of aerotop model would be cool but doubt it will happen https://jza80.mkivsupra.net/imports/2019/01/83.jpg BMW got the rights to the soft top version, Supra's will be hard top only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathWraith Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 The Mk4 TT Supra UK Supra was ~£37,500 in '94, Today, a Mk4 Supra would cost you (adjusted for inflation) almost £76k new. The new car is "52/54K so a good chunk cheaper. It;s also light (by modern standards) which is a good thing! The market is awash with many 1700KG+ big power cars, the MKV is going after the handling "agility" category. Also people complaining about it being "not up to scratch if it needs mods". Erm, what is the MK4 most famous for again? Being the tuner car of choice! The mk5 is not a direct replacement as the market has moved on but I think it is a worthy successor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raddys Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 The Mk4 TT Supra UK Supra was ~£37,500 in '94, Today, a Mk4 Supra would cost you (adjusted for inflation) almost £76k new. The new car is "52/54K so a good chunk cheaper. It;s also light (by modern standards) which is a good thing! The market is awash with many 1700KG+ big power cars, the MKV is going after the handling "agility" category. Also people complaining about it being "not up to scratch if it needs mods". Erm, what is the MK4 most famous for again? Being the tuner car of choice! The mk5 is not a direct replacement as the market has moved on but I think it is a worthy successor. Yes but back in the day the supra mk4 was in the league of Ferraris etc.. now its in the league of a golf r or mid range bmw.. leave the nimble, underpowered handling cars to honda.. in no way has this improved on the mk4.. its a step back if you ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathWraith Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Yes but back in the day the supra mk4 was in the league of Ferraris etc.. now its in the league of a golf r or mid range bmw.. leave the nimble, underpowered handling cars to honda.. in no way has this improved on the mk4.. its a step back if you ask me I think the likelihood of toyota making a ferrari rival in 2019 was slim. Lexus aren't even considered that. Hell look at the new NSX, been received poorly. I test drove one of those last week, it's a good car but again lots of online hate. Strange. Edited January 16, 2019 by NathWraith (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raddys Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I think the likely hood of toyota making a ferrari rival in 2019 was slim. Lexus aren't even considered that. Hell look at the new NSX, been received poorly. I test drove one of those last week, it's a good car but again lots of online hate. Strange. Yes i know what you mean, alot of 90s revived cars get alot of hate because the 90s jdm motors were at the forefront of engineering in my eyes, but these days its all about emissions and health and safety and penny pinching companys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_bandido Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Interesting to note that Toyota haven't replied to the long post I put on their Facebook page, hey have responded to other people with canned messages but the silence on mine is deafening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Weak argument, the car had 320 hp, 26 years ago, only reason it was modded was due to the small outlay to get an extra 100 hp but 26 years ago, nobody was buying the car with the intention to modify it, no need to Toyota could of put any badge on the car, arguing the new model is a Supra just because Toyota said it is, idiotic, It's a BMW Z4 with a different body, nothing about the car shares any heritage with any Supra model Nobody is saying the New Supra is a bad car, I am sure it is fantastic to drive, but people have an issue associating with the Supra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Weak argument, the car had 320 hp, 26 years ago, only reason it was modded was due to the small outlay to get an extra 100 hp but 26 years ago, nobody was buying the car with the intention to modify it, no need to Toyota could of put any badge on the car, arguing the new model is a Supra just because Toyota said it is, idiotic, It's a BMW Z4 with a different body, nothing about the car shares any heritage with any Supra model Nobody is saying the New Supra is a bad car, I am sure it is fantastic to drive, but people have an issue associating with the Supra /QUOTE] I have to agree here. You wouldn’t have needed to modify the mkiv on release. Obviously over time, as with any car you would but online all I can see is people justifying its existence purely on the act it can be modded... that’s sad. Should have been called the Celica or something. Flagship worthy? Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayr Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 stage 1 remap takes it to 408hp.. whats the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I have to agree here. You wouldn’t have needed to modify the mkiv on release. Obviously over time, as with any car you would but online all I can see is people justifying its existence purely on the act it can be modded... that’s sad. Should have been called the Celica or something. Flagship worthy? NopeI will be shocked if the B58 can handle a high jump in power Isn't the manifold, a critical component cast into the head, requiring a completely different head to add the supporting modifications for a power increase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl M N Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 stage 1 remap takes it to 408hp.. whats the issue? Warranty (possibly) I’m sure the new supra is going to be a good car, but surely it wouldn’t have been an issue to supply them with 400hp from factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayr Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I will be shocked if the B58 can handle a high jump in power Isn't the manifold, a critical component cast into the head, requiring a completely different head to add the supporting modifications for a power increase /QUOTE] a friend of mine has a M140 which has the b58 engine in it and it runs 478hp, i think downpipes and map is all he has done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_bandido Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Warranty (possibly) I’m sure the new supra is going to be a good car, but surely it wouldn’t have been an issue to supply them with 400hp from factory. Except that it is, entirely because BMW wouldn't allow them to sell with the same map as the Z4 M40i. This is the biggest piece of evidence that Toyota haven't had anywhere near the level of input they are claiming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazuk Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Litchfield stage 1 just a map 435hp https://jza80.mkivsupra.net/imports/2019/01/74.jpg stage 2 with map and exhaust and filter 450hp and 440 ft of torque https://jza80.mkivsupra.net/imports/2019/01/75.jpg people saying about warranty I don't think many r35 stay standard longer than a week and I doubt these will espically if its just stage 1 and the map can be put back:innocent: Edited January 16, 2019 by chazuk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Except that it is, entirely because BMW wouldn't allow them to sell with the same map as the Z4 M40i. This is the biggest piece of evidence that Toyota haven't had anywhere near the level of input they are claiming. This. I mean there’s evidence enough it’s a reshelled Z4 and nothing more but this is the elephant in the room that no one wants to address when defending it. BMW even came out with a statement on the day the supra was released saying their car is quicker! Toyota are under the thumb in this deal.... an equal partnership, this isn’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 This. I mean there’s evidence enough it’s a reshelled Z4 and nothing more but this is the elephant in the room that no one wants to address when defending it. BMW even came out with a statement on the day the supra was released saying their car is quicker! Toyota are under the thumb in this deal.... an equal partnership, this isn’t Indeed, probably even be better off getting it serviced at BMW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) a friend of mine has a M140 which has the b58 engine in it and it runs 478hp, i think downpipes and map is all he has done Appears the Manifold is cast into the head on the Supra version B58C (turbo 6 cylinder) ( BMW Z4 engine ??) , for the Supra BMW revised the turbo manifold design and is water-cooling the manifold Sounds like an expensive exercise to go beyond bolt on upgrades , swapping engines will potentially be cheaper but you will have to sacrifice the 50/50 weight distribution ; makes it pointless Timing Chain at the rear against the firewall , engine out of you have issues ; did BMW every fix the Tensioner issue, failing , resulting in an expensive engine out to replace? Due to the small wheel base , I do not think I would fancy anything more than what the car has now Edited January 16, 2019 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayr Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Indeed, probably even be better off getting it serviced at BMW! was thinking this yesterday - surely the toyota technicians are entering no mans land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 was thinking this yesterday - surely the toyota technicians are entering no mans land Well it'll be like other new cars, they'll start from scratch, have a course and be competent enough, but won't have seen them everyday like the BMW techs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 That also means servicing and repairs will be a total rip off at dealers seeing as everytime I’ve been to BMW it’s been twice the price it’s ever been at Toyota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I see a similarity to the Mkiv.............that oil filter looks like it might be a pain to access! Difference - no dipstick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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