griffsplace Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I have just swapped out my front jspec twinpots, for UK 4 pots and discs and am having a nightmare getting it bled right. During the swap the fluid had drained considerably even though I attempted to put something airtight over the fluid filler cap. The UK spec callipers have been cleaned up, painted, new seals and one new piston, but not split open. They seemed to bleed as expected with some air coming out at first and then stiffened up. I then drove it off the drive the next day and could barely stop at the end and was into the road before I knew it. The brakes do come on in the end but its a very long way down before they do anything. Last night, I got back in the car and the there is still a lot of travel, it does seem better when the engine is off, once started the pedal goes down a lot further due to the vacuum assist I assume. We re-bled the whole system rears to front, some tiny bubbles and dirt did come out of the rears, neglible air from the fronts. But the pedal travel is still way excessive. Reasearch through here, has one suggestion of doing it with the engine running. The other idea is from the workshop manuals is that the master cylinder needs bleeding first, this involves a potential mess with the fluids, I would rather not do, but surely if the fluid is pumping on through the cyclinder is worked as it should . I cant believe its nothing more than air in the system, but the situation makes the car unsafe to drive at the moment which is frustrating after my coilover and brake upgrades. Any ideas??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraLEDrears Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Are you doing it in the right order? Do you use the tube and bottle method? I had this issue and putting some grease where the bleeders screw in helped. I connected the tube to the bleeder and let gravity do its job. People on here pointed out that I shouldn't hit the pedal at all. Let every caliper bleed for 5 minutes whilst topping up fluid and no drama ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffsplace Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 I do have the tube and bottle bleeding kit, the tube has the non return ball bearing valve on the end. Worth a try tonight. Though with the non return removed of course, I doubt gravity would push it open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraLEDrears Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I do have the tube and bottle bleeding kit, the tube has the non return ball bearing valve on the end. Worth a try tonight. Though with the non return removed of course, I doubt gravity would push it open. Yeah give that a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evinX Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 When mine was done, the whole system was emptied. Calliper and lines bolted on. Filled master cylinder...started from passenger rear and kept topping up as we bled it. No issues thus far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 If you have stock rubber hoses then Chris Wilson mentions clamping them one at a time to test each corner, this might help you rule in/out certain things/areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 If you have stock hoses and they're original i'd bin them and fit braided lines Did a full change on my car with new lines and calipers and got a perfect pedal in one hit using a vacuum bleeder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffsplace Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) They are stock rubbers, so I can give the clamping a try. I did notice HEL were doing a discount this week so was tempted to go that route, I guess the original rubbers will soon have had their day in any case. I was just trying to stop the spending for a few months, though I guess I bought the wrong car for that:) Edited May 10, 2018 by griffsplace (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffsplace Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 well tried them all no joy. gravity method nothing comes out of any of them. tried bleed the master cylinder, made no difference. there was not a steady flow from both ports, more seemed to come out of the one closest the bulkhead. it seems the pedal goes down about 3 inches and hits resistance, it does NOT feel progressive all the way slowly getting harder as you compress air in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyd16 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Try getting a pressure breeder. May help. I just got one. Search for a sealey pressure bleeder. About £40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 A very quick check = make sure the calipers are the right way round , they can be fitted backwards left - right , right -left , this moves the bleed nipple top - bottom and vice versa - the result is you cannot bleed all the air out , it remains trapped in the caliper - it's one of those " Doh! "moments ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffsplace Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 A very quick check = make sure the calipers are the right way round , they can be fitted backwards left - right , right -left , this moves the bleed nipple top - bottom and vice versa - the result is you cannot bleed all the air out , it remains trapped in the caliper - it's one of those " Doh! "moments ..... Did a double check just in case, I did do it right. Though i am going to slip them off but still connected and give them a good shake to try to free up and air and get the bleed in the perfect orientation. Alternatively slip the jspecs back on and try to eliminate things one by one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 I wouldn't bother shaking them, there is something wrong with your system as they should bleed up easily. Are all the pistons on both the calipers moving freely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffsplace Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 I did refurbish them before installing them, so they should be working fine, plenty of life in the pads. Thought I had it sorted, bled and bled, was feeling pretty good. Started up and drove again, it's just the same. Going to switch back to my jspecs tomorrow. Totally pissed of with it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjgreen3 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Have you got this sorted? If not sounds like the same issue I had when refurbing my jspecs with new pistons seals etc. When squeezing pistons in I didn't open up nipple so fluid was pressing on master cylinder piston to get back to reservoir. It flipped the seal backwards pretty much making the master cylinder useless. You get brake feel when engine off but no breaking resistance when engine on and vacuum assist comes into play. Travel was to the floor with little or no braking. Since you have upgraded brake calipers. You may as well order a refurbished master cylinder kit. Then try the bleeding suggested by Mr Wilson and Dnk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Have you got this sorted? If not sounds like the same issue I had when refurbing my jspecs with new pistons seals etc. When squeezing pistons in I didn't open up nipple so fluid was pressing on master cylinder piston to get back to reservoir. It flipped the seal backwards pretty much making the master cylinder useless. You get brake feel when engine off but no breaking resistance when engine on and vacuum assist comes into play. Travel was to the floor with little or no braking. Since you have upgraded brake calipers. You may as well order a refurbished master cylinder kit. Then try the bleeding suggested by Mr Wilson and Dnk. yep id do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffsplace Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 Have you got this sorted? If not sounds like the same issue I had when refurbing my jspecs with new pistons seals etc. When squeezing pistons in I didn't open up nipple so fluid was pressing on master cylinder piston to get back to reservoir. It flipped the seal backwards pretty much making the master cylinder useless. You get brake feel when engine off but no breaking resistance when engine on and vacuum assist comes into play. Travel was to the floor with little or no braking. Since you have upgraded brake calipers. You may as well order a refurbished master cylinder kit. Then try the bleeding suggested by Mr Wilson and Dnk. I refurbed the calipers off the car. Surely pushing the cylinder in and the pressure transmitting back the way is no difference that the brake being applied. I am considering an aftermarket master cylinder from the states, cheaper than a refurb kit, yes the ports are on the other side for LHD, but I will just make a couple of short extension pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjgreen3 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 That's what I thought but after taking out the old piston I could see how the seal has flipped the wrong way. Maybe pressing the brake pedal flares the seal with the pressure being behind it stopping it flaring backwards. Anyway after it happened I talked to a few mechanics who say they always release the bleed nipple to allow the pressure to bleed out the nipple rather than the master cylinder for this very reason. Maybe I'm unlucky done this dozens of times on various cars prior to this incident with no issue but since it happened on the supra I always release pressure through the bleed nipple when pressing back brake pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjgreen3 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Another thought is if the brake fluid reservoir went empty at any point during your caliper swap air could have gotten into tge abs unit. It can be a real PITA to purge the air outta there. More knowledgeable members/search function can point you into the best ways to bleed out the abs unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffsplace Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 Finally got some time to sort this out, simple, just kept bleeding the rear lines, got my daughter to do the up and down pedal and I locked the nipple off each return stroke and a great big glug of air and shitty fluid came out in the end. Now dare I go back and try to get the UK spec brakes back on and sorted. Of course I will, one at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraTRD_MK4 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Hey there mate. I did my sister's ford figo the other day with no assistance. Don't think its the same but I did change brake calipers on my GT Toyota once. I simply used the bottle and tube filled to the extent that the tube is submerged in the brake fluid within the bottle like everyone else suggested and which you conducted. Just ensure fluid level is on full mark in the reservoir, then close the reservoir with cap. Open the bleed valve on caliper then pump the brake three times all the way to the floor. I had old fluid come out with moisture and dirt then I closed the bleed valve and replenished the fluid in reservoir. I did this for both sides and it worked fine after I tested it before starting the car. In your case since its hitting the floor, I would use my hand to push it back and forth quickly as possible to try and obtain brake pedal resistance whilst someone is monitoring the caliper being bled to ensure the bottle is about to over flow or not. You should win this way with your new calipers. I am yet to refit my JDM calipers to my car and I am sure I am going to suffer as my brakes aren't on for one & two my lines were not sealed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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