NA-T with current car or buy a TT - Pros vs Cons (advice appreciated)

[PJJ]

Hi All

 

I'm guessing you get these sort of questions all the time, but I would appreciate any advice others could give please.

 

So I had an NA 5spd 11years ago and wished I'd never sold it. Wind forward 10years and I bought a low mileage NA Auto (couldn't find a manual in my budget at time). I've had my NA Auto for just over a year now and I've been contemplating whether to go NA-T or buy a TT. I've saved up the cash and started looking for a TT, then saw the NA-T kits for sale.

 

The kit Whifbitz do caught my eye and also noticed SRD do one too I think.

 

But the niggling things keep going through my mind such as:

Is it worth it?

Pro's vs cons of NA-T or buying TT?

What other outlays do I need to consider? - Exhaust, brakes, gearbox etc.?

Resale value?

Do I need to record NA-T with DVLA?

Insurance - is it as easy to insure as a TT is?

 

Thanks for reading guys, any advice is much appreciated

[Style]

I guess it's a hard comparison as there isn't very many people that have done both. Those who have gone TT after an NA will say that's the best and NA-T guys will tell you the opposite (including me )

 

There's also a silly amount of factors to consider with regards to the NA you have. Is the diff, brakes, gearbox/clutch all going to be up to an NA-T swap? I was lucky in that department but most of the time, you'll need a gearbox and/or clutch swap at the very least. So that's an expense to consider.

 

Worth it/resale value wise you'd be better going TT. I'm never going to be able to argue that point Strictly speaking I own a 6 speed single turbo Supra but the VIN plate says it was originally an NA so I'm losing a lot of value solely for that reason.

 

DVLA don't need to know about an NA-T....just the insurance company. And they tend to up their prices when you tell them that. Some policies are more accepting to modifications than others so it's a laborious day of phoning around and asking I'm afraid. I tend to switch company every year as my premium always jumps at renewal and I find it cheaper elsewhere. But maybe that's just me being unlucky and suffering at the hands of the complete lottery that is car insurance.

 

There's a lot of information on the subject, old and new, where most of the information will still be relevant. So have a dig around and see what you can find and go with your head

[Scooter]

As above lots of factors.

 

A big one is how you rate your car rust/looks/colour etc wise. In the old days a swap to a TT was easy AND cost effective making a NA-T'd auto a rare car. Finding a good Auto TT is not so easy.

If you do find one you probably have a much larger price difference to 'upgrade', also the TT's are all that bit older and so might have some aging issues. If these are engine related engines are no longer freely available certainly not cheap. Auto box mods are known, NA engines and auto boxes are still available and cheap so if you don't want to go mad power wise a NA-T auto could make financial sense in the short term at least.

 

I think due to the higher compression and gearing a NA-T is going to feel a bit more 'urgent' than a similar powered Auto TT?

 

Diff mount will need to be added to a NA, nice to have a LSD too if yours doesn't (and it probably doesn't) have one.

 

Projects like this tend to have a runaway/unexpected at the outset costs.

 

I was always a sell one buy another, but the availability and price gap now means it's no so clear cut.....

[PJJ]

Thanks guys some good points for me to consider.

 

Probably my wording in first post caused a mis-understanding. I wasn't considering converting mine to a TT. My thoughts were do i do NA-T or does it make better sense to sell my NA car and buy a TT car instead.

Sorry for confusion.

[PJJ]

Yep, the topic has been done to death.

But its still worth looking at again from time to time, as the scene changes.

 

Years and years ago, my first supra was NA, and i had the same problem - NA-T or tt.

The very simple answer for me was that it was far more cost effective at the time to sell the NA and buy a TT, plus quicker to dlachieve than the NAT upgrade path.

 

Years later that might no longer be the case, but i suspect not.

 

A TT IMO is the wiser choice. But thats not necessarily the same for everyone. For some the NA-t is the only choice. The thing to look at is your end goal, and see if an na-t can do that, how money your ready to throw into the pit, and if there is any compelling reason to keep the NA.

 

Thanks, that was my same thoughts too.

Budget wise i have saved enough to buy a TT car then sell my NA afterwards to recoup some more cash. It's just finding an excellent example. Unfortunately can't afford a TT6 so really looking towards a TT auto.

Guess problem starts when you get attached to the NA and that's why i was curious about going NA-T i guess.

[Scooter]

Thanks, that was my same thoughts too.

Budget wise i have saved enough to buy a TT car then sell my NA afterwards to recoup some more cash. It's just finding an excellent example. Unfortunately can't afford a TT6 so really looking towards a TT auto.

Guess problem starts when you get attached to the NA and that's why i was curious about going NA-T i guess.

 

Can I just ask what you consider enough to get an Auto TT? (pm if you'd rather just curious what a buyer perceives they need these days)

 

If you have that cash around to buy a genuine TT and then sell the NA to recoup your rainy day/holiday/wifes handbag fund then I'd do that, but just really concentrate on finding a nice one.

[PJJ]

One thing j will say is that Na-t is by no means a lower class option.

Some poeple think of them a lesser of the a TT but thats not the case.

Like the TT Na-t can be monsters, when modded properly. Its just requires a different approach and cost.

 

 

If your NA is perfectly setup, i.e loads of interoir, body and mechanical mods allready, there is an inherent cost to tranfer that all over to a new TT, so maybe the na-t isnt a bad idea....

 

Plus, thinking about what others have just said on here, The TT's these days are getting more and more rare. So with that in mind, Na-t really coild be a good option now.

 

Na-t kit, bmw box, a tt diff, maybe new internals and a bit more would be an nice build.

 

Infact, Maybe order some overnight parts from japan, and youve got a 10 sec car..... According to brian earl spilner and his 2jzge anyway...

 

Luckily I've only recently bought new wheels and few carbon goodies so not so bad on that front for swapping over. Another reason behind my thoughts of what to do before i buy anymore upgrades i guess.

 

If i was just aiming to stay around the 500hp mark would i still need a lot of upgrading to the NA? With you mentioning diff etc?

[Dnk]

Luckily I've only recently bought new wheels and few carbon goodies so not so bad on that front for swapping over. Another reason behind my thoughts of what to do before i buy anymore upgrades i guess.

 

If i was just aiming to stay around the 500hp mark would i still need a lot of upgrading to the NA? With you mentioning diff etc?

 

You'd need to single a TT to get that to 500 hp

 

Actually its possibly do able with hybrid turbos cams fuelling etc etc

 

- - - Updated - - -

Edited March 22, 2018 by Dnk (see edit history)

[Wonga Spar]

It's never an easy answer. In fact, I've "made up my mind" about 12 different times one way or the other, now a year later and I still haven't firmly decided. As time goes on TT just gets more expensive and NA-T just gets cheaper. I've been quoted as low as £1,800 for a full NA-T inc labor (granted this was ebay parts but still, it's an undeniably attractive price). You could almost certainly do a nice job for less than £3,000 now, whereas an Aristo engine appears to start at £3,000 then you've got the headache of sourcing/modifying the loom.

 

Just my personal perspective, people are quick to say "sell it and buy X", but the process of buying a Supra (at least in my experience) is so much of an indescribable PITA, it's honestly enough to put most people off. You could likely be waiting many months before the right one comes up. We're also seeing plenty of TT Autos starting at £15,000 now for anything remotely tidy. When for £5,000 you could TT swap a nice/trusted NA and probably recoup most of what it cost you when you come to sell, it's a no brainer imo. The same point could be made for going NA-T.

 

If I had my time again I'd undoubtedly sit tight until the absolute perfect NA came up, then put whatever it needs into it (more than likely NA-T), but others may disagree.

 

To simply give an answer to your questions:

 

- Insurance is definitely much more awkward, I was quoted £1,100 for NA-T but only £400 for TT. I expect other members can report similar findings. Household name insurers won't touch an NA-T Supra in my experience.

 

- Gearbox risk is real, but mostly driving-dependant. In your situation I believe the NA autobox can be strengthened. As for reliability issues... most professionals I've spoken to state it all lies in the tune. However many will tell you it comes down to whether or not you buy cheap parts but I think that's pretty BS, there's tons of people running XS power kits for years....just don't skimp on the lines or wastegate is the general consensus.

 

- You'd probably want a 2.5/3" exhaust. Brakes should realistically always be improved if you're going to be throwing 400bhp around, I went with the LS400 swap option and most swear by that.

 

One thing I'd love to see more discussion on though is the different driving characteristics of NA-T / TT.... Could some people who've gone NA-T maybe share their thoughts? Presumably manifold choice has a lot to do with it, but it is particularly violent by comparison or can it be enjoyed "leisurely"?

 

I know it's reductionist but it boggles my mind how you can pick up a tidy NA-5 for £6,500 , slap a £2,500 kit on it and boom, you've got a (probably) reliable 380bhp manual Supra.... for £9,000...... IMO that is the bottom line. And doubt you'd lose a penny when you go to sell.

 

You might find this as useful as I did: http://www.mkiv.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?296560-NA-T-Spec-Thread&highlight=power+manifold

Edited March 26, 2018 by Wonga Spar (see edit history)

[syco]

suppose it also depends on if you have got to pay someone to do all the labour or DIY, as that would had a significant increase to the cost. For me it was an easy choice. I wanted an aero and they were way out my price range ,so got an NA and have been slowly collecting the parts to got NA-T.