thinking of going na-t

[Dave]

as the title says im thinking of putting together the kit for an na-t conversion .I know there has been plenty of posts on this subject ,but there was a post of one of our members doing a build thread of the na-t conversion tried to find it but no luck ,im sure the car was gunmetal grey and he did it with the motor out of the car .also anyone got a ball park figure on the cost got a bit of extra cash coming my way so I want to spend it wisely.

[Mike2JZ]

Ballpark Figures for just getting the NA-T kit hardware (turbo, manifolds, fueling, clutch, ecu etc), not including upgrades to brakes/gearboxes/suspension/tyres etc.

 

Cheap as chips (300-400hp): 2-3k

Pretty decent (400-550hp): 4-5k

Balls out NA-T (600-1000hp) 10k+

 

You may need to add more or subtract depending on how much of the work you can do yourself, mapping costs etc...

Edited December 22, 2017 by Mike2JZ (see edit history)

[Dave]

Ballpark Figures for just getting the NA-T kit hardware (turbo, manifolds, fueling, clutch, ecu etc), not including upgrades to brakes/gearboxes/suspension/tyres etc.

 

Cheap as chips (300-400hp): 2-3k

Pretty decent (400-550hp): 4-5k

Balls out NA-T (600-1000hp) 10k+

 

You may need to add more or subtract depending on how much of the work you can do yourself, mapping costs etc...

I was just looking at the kit from whifbitz it gives 350 bhp with the standard head.any thoughts on this one

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?294921-Garage-Whifbitz-Supra-NA-T-Turbo-Kit

[Mike2JZ]

I was just looking at the kit from whifbitz it gives 350 bhp with the standard head.any thoughts on this one

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?294921-Garage-Whifbitz-Supra-NA-T-Turbo-Kit

 

Working on a supra that has this kit installed on it and the only downside to it that Ive seen so far is the emanage ecu. It does the job under WOT, but cold start is terrible and lacks any of the nice features found on a modern standalone. This isn't the mappers or whifbitz fault from what I can see on the emanage software, but rather the limitations of the emanage piggybacking off the stock ECU trying to work with bigger injectors. Everything in the kit is of good quality, I would just recommend using some sort of standalone ECU in place of the joke that is emanage.

 

Can't remember if the engine is still running the stock HG and head or not, but it made 360hp on the dyno, which is really low numbers compared to what this kit could push out. Owner wants the engine rebuilt so the kit can be maxed.

 

If your goal is 350hp, then you can get a cheaper kit installed. but if you want more then the whifbitz kit is definately up to the task.

[Suprakeith]

If your thinking of going na-t then I 100% recommend the Whifbitz kit. I will be buying this kit and pushing it to its limits myself and it’s great quality

[Scooter]

From what Mike has said, I would go with keeping the stock injectors and doing what it takes to then stop the engine lunching itself under boost.

 

So low boost, up the static fuel pressure? the piggyback seemingly works ok at wot and cold start etc will be all good just as it is now infact?

 

I always though it would be good to fit an afr gauge to an na and monitor this before going na-t, then You can compare before and after, and my understanding is if the afr is in the OK region, engine damage is minimised, too rich and you get poor power/bore wash, too lean and you get good power (to start with) but then melt stuff Ie game over.

 

With the stock injectors and stock ecu and sensors still working you get a level of normal running and 'help' to keep everything intact, you then 'just' have to deal with boost conditions. Also your transmission should survive these moderate power increases.

[AC93]

Biggest holdback is the 5 speed gearbox which won't last long after 430bhp :/

[Dave]

Thanks guys for the info

 

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Biggest holdback is the 5 speed gearbox which won't last long after 430bhp :/

Mines an auto

[safcdixon]

Gte swap is slightly more expensive but so much easier and more reliable imo

[Dave]

Gte swap is slightly more expensive but so much easier and more reliable imo

Yes your right that would be my preferred option ,but finding a good motor is the thing

[Suprakeith]

Biggest holdback is the 5 speed gearbox which won't last long after 430bhp :/

 

That’s a myth the W58 can handle around 550 if not driven like stole it. Lots of examples in other countries running over 500 with W58

[Swampy442]

For the price of a decent NA/T kit you could buy and fit a GTE engine, run 400hp, with a decent base for more in the future. I think NA/T is a massive false economy and Im not sorry for saying it.

[Noz]

NA-t bang for buck is and always will be the better option. It's just always ended up that way. Hundreds of cheap XS turbos with success rates. 400hp within reach, time and time again.

 

HOWEVER. I'm NA-t, would I advise it? God no! Unless auto, that's not so bad. But manual, hell no. Unless you can risk the spend on another gearbox.

 

Don't do it. You'll never be happy with 400hp, and to get to 500/600hp you're end up spending way more than going TT in the first place.

 

But the main the biggest reason not to go NA-t, is the w58 is a gamble on 400hp of power. Lots of opinions, lots of success and failures. But 400hp, turbo, is a gamble. Fact. If that pops at today's prices you're looking at a mega spend out for the SAME as what you already had, but exactly the SAME gamble on a NEW gearbox (unless you fork out EVEN MORE to upgrade further!).

 

NA-t is not something I'd advise due to w58, that's an expensive risk. Swap a GTE engine and you still have a w58 which can pop at any moment.

[Mike2JZ]

NA-t bang for buck is and always will be the better option. It's just always ended up that way. Hundreds of cheap XS turbos with success rates. 400hp within reach, time and time again.

 

HOWEVER. I'm NA-t, would I advise it? God no! Unless auto, that's not so bad. But manual, hell no. Unless you can risk the spend on another gearbox.

 

Don't do it. You'll never be happy with 400hp, and to get to 500/600hp you're end up spending way more than going TT in the first place.

 

But the main the biggest reason not to go NA-t, is the w58 is a gamble on 400hp of power. Lots of opinions, lots of success and failures. But 400hp, turbo, is a gamble. Fact. If that pops at today's prices you're looking at a mega spend out for the SAME as what you already had, but exactly the SAME gamble on a NEW gearbox (unless you fork out EVEN MORE to upgrade further!).

 

NA-t is not something I'd advise due to w58, that's an expensive risk. Swap a GTE engine and you still have a w58 which can pop at any moment.

 

As a living example of this, I just shredded the teeth on my 3rd gear w58. I was accelerating WOT and it just let go. C'est la vie.

[mellonman]

As a living example of this, I just shredded the teeth on my 3rd gear w58. I was accelerating WOT and it just let go. C'est la vie.

 

but your car was keeping with mine and mines 524bhp

[Mike2JZ]

but your car was keeping with mine and mines 524bhp

 

I've tuned it on dyno since then, we should see what they are like now ....once i've paid a small fortune on going to R154 gearbox

[LasseV]

NA-t bang for buck is and always will be the better option. It's just always ended up that way. Hundreds of cheap XS turbos with success rates. 400hp within reach, time and time again.

 

HOWEVER. I'm NA-t, would I advise it? God no! Unless auto, that's not so bad. But manual, hell no. Unless you can risk the spend on another gearbox.

 

Don't do it. You'll never be happy with 400hp, and to get to 500/600hp you're end up spending way more than going TT in the first place.

 

But the main the biggest reason not to go NA-t, is the w58 is a gamble on 400hp of power. Lots of opinions, lots of success and failures. But 400hp, turbo, is a gamble. Fact. If that pops at today's prices you're looking at a mega spend out for the SAME as what you already had, but exactly the SAME gamble on a NEW gearbox (unless you fork out EVEN MORE to upgrade further!).

 

NA-t is not something I'd advise due to w58, that's an expensive risk. Swap a GTE engine and you still have a w58 which can pop at any moment.

 

Somehow irrelevant rant isn't it? If you wanna play you have to pay. In a way or another. High hp car is always expensive. 400hp Supra seems to be a quite reasonable, it maybe doesn't impress keyboard warriors but who cares. You build your car for yourself.

 

Anyway, is someone strenghtened their w58 gearbox? Yeah i know that it is expensive, but so is r154 and v160 boxes too. And they are old box and there is always some risks to buy some second hand parts.

Another question: who has installed that Whifbiz na-t kit? How it does drive? Dyno graph in their web site looks good, it has good torque and it seems to have a nice top end. I don't know how that translate for real life tho...

 

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I've tuned it on dyno since then, we should see what they are like now ....once i've paid a small fortune on going to R154 gearbox

 

How much it did make in dyno?

[Mike2JZ]

Somehow irrelevant rant isn't it? If you wanna play you have to pay. In a way or another. High hp car is always expensive. 400hp Supra seems to be a quite reasonable, it maybe doesn't impress keyboard warriors but who cares. You build your car for yourself.

 

Anyway, is someone strenghtened their w58 gearbox? Yeah i know that it is expensive, but so is r154 and v160 boxes too. And they are old box and there is always some risks to buy some second hand parts.

Another question: who has installed that Whifbiz na-t kit? How it does drive? Dyno graph in their web site looks good, it has good torque and it seems to have a nice top end. I don't know how that translate for real life tho...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

How much it did make in dyno?

 

431hp & 455 ft.lbs @ flywheel is on my daily setting. I've had as much as 470 ft.lbs with 1-2 psi higher boost when playing around with it. Was kind of hoping my competition clutch stage 3 would slip before the gearbox would go, but no so lucky.

 

So box let go with hp/torque sitting around the 400 at the rear wheels, which seems to be the condenses online of the "breaking" point for these boxes. You could probably get away running more horse power on a laggier turbo so torque isn't as high.

[Dave_Batch]

I run a xspower kit, oil lines are junk, downpipe needs modifying, the screamer needs a little adjustment... But turbo, manifold and intercooler are decent for what they are... Cant fault it, put in 440cc injectors on a Emanage blue, a TT head gasket, and definitely fit an ARF gauge, AFR and boost as a minimum for me... I made 454bhp at 12psi. Fitted it all myself, definitely whip the engine out... Wouldn't want to risk drilling the sump in situ.. Then im using a act stage 3 clutch on my w58 no problems

[Suprakeith]

I am currently doing an NA-T forged build, and have built the block to handle 1500bhp and just had all the head ported & polished, I will be going for the Whifbitz na-t kit but my end goal is around 1000whp.

End of the day you need to build the car to what you want from the car, and I know loads of people say the W58 is always the weak link but like comment above if go gte engine once push is it over certain power it’s still a weak link.

The R154 and V160 are very expensive options but there are better cheaper options out there.

 

People always say NA-T is a waste of money and always better to go GTE swap but that’s only because we are so far behind the times over here in UK, I mean none of the big supra specialists even offer built GE heads, just look at some of the Australia and USA 2jz-ge options they offer so many different types of manifolds plus they do front facing inlet manifolds with different throttle body options aswell.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Suprakeith (see edit history)

[Dave_Batch]

If your going single... And your going standalone eventually... Then GTE swap is pointless, just my opinion, your paying 4k for a different head and wiring harness which will be cut away anyway... Ok you get oil squirters but unless your smashing it round a track every other weekend they arent going to do much more for street use in mexico city...

4k for a standard GTE swap will get you to 400bhp on twins, then its another 2k or so to go single...

Then your still running a w58 anyway, so your better off putting 4k into a motor you know is good with the ge, and getting a much better spec single build for less money

[Dave]

So as I’m on an auto box 400bhp is a safe bet then with na/t

[EdYKID]

How much power can you get with a twin turbo and auto box .I fancy the Aristo , but I want at least 500BHP out of it and how hard and expensive is it to do a manual conversion or is it worth buying one from import already done

[LasseV]

I'm highly tempted for going na-t route with my car but i have a two questions. How does na-t engine with stock NA compression drives compared to 1jz/2jz-GTE? I have never driven that kind of engine before. Second question is more boring one, what happens to MPG in the longer runs when not playing?

[mattdavies]

With the Auto box there is an auto box group where you can hybridise the NA box with a TT auto box and have a box that will be good for a reported 500bhp. If I was you I would do that first and then with the money left go NA-T