chris_bramley Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Hi all Some of you have been following the saga so far with my car... We've finally tracked what happened to it: Radweld in the rad (ARGH! WHY was it THERE?!?!) caused a block in the cooling system which stopped water getting through to cool the engine. The head gasket blew ferociously, which allowed engine pressure back into the rad system, which blew the rad out through my bonnet vents. I finally got the head off, and had it measured. It is at least 20 thou out from true, meaning I either have to skim it deep and get a thick HG or a new/good cond 2nd hand head. Can anyone suggest anything? I've already had a lot of work done and I can't afford too much more of this My baby has been off the road now for 2 months and I'm utterly gutted by this, of all the things to happen it's been the rad system, the heater matrix and now the head... all interlinked. All of you so far who've been of help, thanks for everything; and everyone, please give me any help on this you can! it's the life of my supra we're talking about here - a worthy cause! Thanks guys C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad k Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Get a thicker gead gasket ? 20thou is 0.5 of a mm, so See if Hks or the likes do one .5of a mil thicker ? Or contact Gosnays Engine services and ask if there doing one of there new Head saver shim kits yet ? Its basicly a plate the same layout of your block/head face, Its fitted then the gasket, Its for cases like this when the head needs skimmed, We use them a lot in my work on Cosworth engines, Some running stupidly high boost and have never had a problem. Failing that i *might* have a second hand head , id need to rumage through my stuff and check it, And if i do id presure test it to make sure its fine, I will take a wee look tomorow. K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlam Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Chris Hks HG's... http://www.greenline.jp/catalogue/bccatpartlist.php?make=Toyota&carcode=JZA80A&intake=FI&category=engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 Get a thicker gead gasket ? 20thou is 0.5 of a mm, so See if Hks or the likes do one .5of a mil thicker ? Or contact Gosnays Engine services and ask if there doing one of there new Head saver shim kits yet ? Its basicly a plate the same layout of your block/head face, Its fitted then the gasket, Its for cases like this when the head needs skimmed, We use them a lot in my work on Cosworth engines, Some running stupidly high boost and have never had a problem. Failing that i *might* have a second hand head , id need to rumage through my stuff and check it, And if i do id presure test it to make sure its fine, I will take a wee look tomorow. K. I was considering this but a lot of consensus on here is to always go with stock... where possible. Head saver shims? hmm, it sounds good but I'm a little dubious about adding what's essentially another gasket to the equation :s I'd need to look into that. I'll also need new bolts, won't I? damn damn damn, this is getting pricier by the nanosecond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 How on earth can a head shim work? How does it seal around the bores, oil ways and cooling jacket? Does it have beads on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Does anyone know what the max you can skim off the head is? I can't find any data on it (Although to be fair I've not looked massively hard) If it's beyond that amount, then there's only two things you can do IMHO. Both of them envolves a different head, one of them 2nd hand, the other new from Toyota (Although you may want to speak to MVP or Curt Aigner as they'll probably be able to supply it cheaper from the states than what you'll pay over here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad k Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Its just a complete flat template plate, And they do work, The largest OE gasket manufactuer "Payne" are now main agents for the gosnay products, Like i said, we built a cosworth engine for a customer who runs 32psi, His block had a small gouge out it and it was built up using a "Head Saver Shim", Weve now done loads of cosworth aswell as other aplications with these. K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Mad_K, What's the difference between this head saver shim and a thicker head gasket? Chris, What engine is yours? Pre-VVTi GTE I presume? Somebody must have one spare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad k Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 http://www.federal-mogul.com/aftermarket/region7_en/payen_headsavers.htm?Country=GreatBritain Info on the saver shims. K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 http://www.federal-mogul.com/aftermarket/region7_en/payen_headsavers.htm?Country=GreatBritain Info on the saver shims. I still don't see any advantage over using a thicker head gasket. Just more potential for failure as there are more facing surfaces. What am I missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Is that just not another gasket?? Also, if your head is so far warped, you'll probably want to check the deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad k Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Sorry Jake, I posted that URL before i read your question to me, Benifits im not sure whats beter, Except cost, I was only posting a altenate method of sealing it if it had to be skimed so far. head saver shims are genaraly around £30 for a 4 cylinder car ,6 cylinder im not sure off, But if he was repairing it on a tight budget, this and a cheaper head gasket might be a alternative ? Im not even sure if they do one for the Supra as ive never used one, I was only highliting a difrent method. K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad k Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Is that just not another gasket?? No , Its like a small template, It doesnt have any seeling properties, has no coating or anything, Its used to build up the surface. There handy when a head needs to be machined to the extreme as it saves buying a new/recon/second hand head, Weather or not in this case it would be usefull im not sure, was just trying to help out. K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 Mad_K, What's the difference between this head saver shim and a thicker head gasket? Chris, What engine is yours? Pre-VVTi GTE I presume? Somebody must have one spare Yarr. Does anyone know the standard prices vs 2nd hand versus Toyota prices on these? I've had to replace the radiator and heater matrix too so far so this is becoming ubercostly and I can't afford this to be too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad k Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I have a cylinder head for sale if that helps. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=48281 K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 No , Its like a small template, It doesnt have any seeling properties, has no coating or anything, Its used to build up the surface. I'm curious how this works... cos far as I knwo the HG needs to seal, so wouldn't it essentially be like an unsealed gasket? It could be a good idea though. It certainly looks interesting, and if you can run up to 32psi through it it would be good enough I think! However - let's assume I do NOT want to be doing all this again! So I'd like to make damn sure on this one as I said above, anyone's got cheap prices I'm all ears. especially for porting and polishing which might be worth doing if I can afford it! It will already be a good £75 to skim... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 I have a cylinder head for sale if that helps. It could well do... how much were you thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 More info here. Still pretty bonkers - especially if it has no rubberised coating or anything. It's seeing all the same loads as the haed gasket as far as I can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad k Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 It basicly builds the block face up, and its mated to the block by Wellseal, You still use a head gasket so it still seals. £75 to skim, Up here to skim a 6 cylinder head its £35. As for the head make me a offer on it mate. K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 £35!! Down here £75 is a good price... it does include pressure and laser testing. I wouldn't know where to start dude, I have no concept of how much these things cost. If I do get another one, anyone know how much porting and polishing would cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlam Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Kenny Up here to skim a 6 cylinder head its £35...I'll remember that one mate . Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I just spoke to Steve @ Inchcape Toyota and a new head retails at around £1300. With discount he could do it for £1150. Lots of money eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Chris I had a similar thing happen on mine around 6 years ago, a friend in teh UK sourced me a 2nd hand head there, off a scrapper and Chris Wilson completely rebuilt it for me. I would definitely recommend getting in touch with Chris, as I'm sure he will give you some very valuable advice, as he did with me. See [thread=2480]THIS THREAD[/thread] Good luck with getting the car fit and healthy again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 It basicly builds the block face up, and its mated to the block by Wellseal, Ah - right!! There you go then. What's Wellseal? Some kind of liquid gasket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad k Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 We charge £60 for pressure testing, crack testing and a skim, I thought you meant £75 for a skim only. Im not sure how much the heads worth, How does £250 deliverd sound ? this is just ball park as im so unsure... K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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