Why deep pockets?

[RACsupra]

After reading lots of posts on ye olde interweb about going single, I see lots of people saying "you'll need deep pockets"

 

Now, this doesn't appear to be for the initial cost of going single but for the ongoing costs?

 

So, why the need for deep pockets?

[Ric]

Its because it costs around 10-15k+ to do correctly and reliably.

 

Deep pockets.

[berg]

There are no real ongoing costs unless you are constantly upgrading/changing things

 

Or if you cheap out on the initial cost then you may have ongoing cost to put things right

 

The single turbo kit itself is only a small part of the package, its everything else that gets forgotten about which can easily add up to the same price if not more than what the turbo kit itself cost

[HarleyFDMD]

It all boils down to where you do your weekly shop.

"Deep pockets" to a Waitrose customer has a different meaning to an ASDA guy.

 

I think parts alone the initial outlay of a single build is in the region of 7k with a stock block.

Then you just need to consider how much 7k means to you and how attainable that kind of money is.

Different people have different circumstances and so terms like 'deep pockets' are abit vague.

 

For the record, i shop at Morrisons

[RACsupra]

So its the initial planning that counts the most...... perhaps I miss interpreted the 'deep pockets' ongoing cost, maybe this was for those who opted to do the change on a budget.

 

Having just changed suspension and being happy with handling now, I was looking at brakes next but second thoughts as to if I should just stick with the JDM option / UK set up (currently using Chris Wilson pads but may try Endless or Portefield)

 

So with brakes(possibly) and suspension sorted, its the decision to go after some more power..... just deciding what route to go...

 

ps: not sure where the wife shops, think She uses Morrisons, Waitrose mainly. I just carry it in for Her...lol

[j_jza80]

While these cars are exceptionally well engineered and built, you have to remember that they are getting quite old, and at one point they were a £40k plus car when new (£70k allowing for inflation), so when things need replacing, it can be very expensive.

[Dnk]

A 100% working correctly uk set up is fine so no need to splash out there really, just do a fluid change and replace

old flexi hoses.

 

Well worth taking the pads out and use brake cleaner and soft tooth brush to clean and then check the outer piston dirt

seals to see what condition they're in, if they are original they could well need replacing before they split causing piston seizure

[Krister]

Its because it costs around 10-15k+ to do correctly and reliably.

 

Deep pockets.

 

I would beg to disagree if the work is done by yourself and shopping wisely (some 2nd hand parts). I'd say a 600bhp single Supra is as reliable as a BPU one and doesnt require a built engine. Only the sky is the limit though and 15k can be spent easily if shooting over 800bhp.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Krister (see edit history)

[RACsupra]

A 100% working correctly uk set up is fine so no need to splash out there really, just do a fluid change and replace

old flexi hoses.

 

Well worth taking the pads out and use brake cleaner and soft tooth brush to clean and then check the outer piston dirt

seals to see what condition they're in, if they are original they could well need replacing before they split causing piston seizure

 

Good call, I've already refurbed the calipers, so new seals in place and all the pistons are free and working. Put some nice new Goodridge hoses on too, along with a flush of new 5.1 . I just think they could be better, perhaps its time to try some better discs and pads..

[Mike2JZ]

Because going fast isn't cheap whatever way you try to justify it.

[Dnk]

Good call, I've already refurbed the calipers, so new seals in place and all the pistons are free and working. Put some nice new Goodridge hoses on too, along with a flush of new 5.1 . I just think they could be better, perhaps its time to try some better discs and pads..

 

Good to see someone doing the upgrades, maintenance before going for more power

 

I was always impressed with how well my car stopped, even on track and i only used OE discs & pads

with Goodridge hoses and Motul RBF600 fluid

[Ric]

I would beg to disagree if the work is done by yourself and shopping wisely (some 2nd hand parts). I'd say a 600bhp single Supra is as reliable as a BPU one and doesnt require a built engine. Only the sky is the limit though and 15k can be spent easily if shooting over 800bhp.

 

Like i said, correctly and reliably.

 

Using unknown 2nd hand or more parts won't help the reliability (probably). If you don't know what you're doing by doing it yourself it's not the correctly part. (Usually)

 

ECU and mapping will still most likely be the highest cost.

[Scooter]

I think it depends on how often you do use the power and how. Also there is a power level where you can be seemingly as reliable as bpu and then 50-80bhp more and something might catastrophically break.

 

Stock car, the engine, drivetrain and turbos are basically unburstable.

BPU all of the above but turbo life slightly down (and possible catastrophic failure if you are careless/unlucky)

 

When single 500-600bhp doesn't seem to cause many issues to a stock unopened engine, or the diff's, or a decent clutch. It doesn't 100% require you to have dedicated tyres, just top quality summer tyres.

 

At some point above this, rods can go, diff's can break, traction is a major issue without 'soft' rears.....it really is reaching (exceeding) it's engineering limits. So then you are looking at forged internals engine rebuilds non user friendly clutches and potentially still things breaking hence deep pockets.

 

Lot's of people who go single are naturally power chasers and so can't stop at the mark where reliability (and I would argue usability) is good, to me that's the sweet spot and if you really do just want that bit more it should be too expensive.

 

For me I don't want it or the hassle of mapping for it, bpu is for me plenty

[RACsupra]

500-600BHP would do me fine and want something useable and ideally fairly reliable. Its a VVTI facelift auto with BPU and its great.

 

I do like the way the twins work and may decide to stick with such a set up in the future, its just interesting to get feed back and make a more considered choice on what way to achieve my goals.

 

It's only really now that im confident the car can cope with some extra power from a handling and braking aspect that I'm looking to spend some money on a little more the performance side.......

[Mac Srt]

500-600BHP would do me fine and want something useable and ideally fairly reliable. Its a VVTI facelift auto with BPU and its great.

 

I do like the way the twins work and may decide to stick with such a set up in the future, its just interesting to get feed back and make a more considered choice on what way to achieve my goals.

 

It's only really now that im confident the car can cope with some extra power from a handling and braking aspect that I'm looking to spend some money on a little more the performance side.......

 

Mines a VVTI facelift auto and its booked in for single conversion next month. So far I've spent about £9.5k (including my Titan box) still got fitting, mapping etc on top yet.

 

 

 

[Hemanhead]

As others have said, try and buy more premium items and new if budget allows. Spec the car to the power goals and stick to it. How many times have we seen members going bigger as the project progresses - it costs alot more in the long run.

 

Big diffs don't tend to explode but I imagine even a standard unopened engine will be wanting a refresh now. Adding power to the platform is a very quick way of finding out what needs work and what doesn't as many have found out which is probably what people refer to as 'ongoing costs'. Just be aware and have contingency monies would be my advice.

[bignum]

All great advice here.

[jagman]

Going to a single turbo ( always done to increase power) you create your own problems and have to pay to create the solutions to the problems

you increase boost and airflow to produce more power , this increases the heat energy , lots of this heat flys out of the exhaust but wherever it goes it causes problems - valves ,cylinder heads ,exhaust manifolds , oil and water and so on - each component is more likely to fail and each component more stressed and strained

There is also an increased chance of detonation , which can destroy the engine , it costs money to overcome this and components must work as required ALL the time , spark plugs must extract the heat, fuel must always be correct and available , injectors,fuel pumps ,filters, ignition must always be correct , and so on

Then there are the mechanical components , crank pulleys , pistons ,rings, water pumps ,oil pumps ,gaskets, and so on ,all with greater loadings , they must work as required ALL the time .

The costs rise or you dont do something to save money ,often its the saving money bit that costs you a fortune - sort of should I use a new headgasket or check the piston tops - naaah , then that bit of carbon on the piston detonates and bang !!

Deep pockets are a by product of more power , can it be done cheap - not really , you may make power for about 10 seconds -lol

[Krister]

Like i said, correctly and reliably.

 

Doing the work yourself and using some 2nd hand parts makes it automatically not reliable and isnt the correct way to do it?

 

Of course it depends of the skill level of the person making the build, but if you dont start from some where, you arent going to learn anything. Also it might cost you more in the long way when having to pay for someone else to do it all the time. I also enjoy working on my own car and learning something every time, and I can say that I built it my self. I always encourage people to do their own work on the car as it's part of the fun.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Krister (see edit history)

[Hitbox Junkie]

Do it your way and see how much it costs you.

 

 

Yes you can save mkney doing it yourself and using 2nd hand parts but itnwill still cost a fair bit just in parts.

 

But do it your way. What ecu are you going to use?

[berg]

I built mine myself, the only thing ive paid someone to do is the tuning and mapping etc thats it

 

Cheap? not a chance

But cheaper than alot of others? yes because ive put the blood sweat and tears into it, not someone else

 

All in my single build on its own owes me around £9k i would say, thats using all brand new branded top notch parts and £0 labour other than tuning

 

To put into perspective how much the supporting parts cost, my complete bolt on turbo kit cost me £2,500 landed from the states, the other £6.5k is the rest of the parts needed to go with it like fuel system, ecu and sensors, mapping etc which are the parts people forget about

 

Granted theres things ive done which are arent strictly needed if your on a budget like cams, toucan display and all the added extras i had done with the mapping etc

 

But you have to decide what you want, either a cheap low budget build where you will have to skimp on parts/spec somewhere, or like i did and create a spec list of exactly what you want and just go for it

 

IMO cheap WILL lead to reliabilty issues somewhere along the lines even if its just down to how long the parts will last

 

Simple things like sensors for the ecus, adding them all comes to quite a wedge of cash, alot of people will skimp on them as they arent strictly needed, but when something happens you will wish you spent the extra few hundred on a sensor that your ecu could have used to saved your engine.

[Chris Wilson]

Whilst it's fairly easy to work out the cost you are likely to incur on the big stuff, it's usually what people forget to budget for that takes the cost spiralling upwards. Price up decent braided hose and fittings, a couple of mapping sessions with dyno time, an engine refresh with new pistons, rings and a rebore, new crank bearings and oil pump, new water pump, valve job and stem seals, new crank damper, gasket and seal kit, blah blah. All the things you would be mad not to address when aiming for 200 to 300 BHP over what a brand new engine was designed to give reliably. Most 2JZ engines are now pretty tired, as are their ancillaries, pumping a vast amount more air fuel into one is like giving Grandad a box of Viagra, three grand cash, and the key to the local whore house. It's unlikely to do him a power of good no matter how amusing the experiment may seem.

[jagman]

On another car , I got a used turbo cheap - checked it out seemed good , no noise, no blade damage , no play - bargain!!!

Lasted about 30 seconds on the dyno , torque rose beautifully until it fell like a stone ...... seized solid

A tiny bit of carbon came out and blocked the oil return line - oh how I laughed...

My pockets now extend below my knees !!!

[fullthrottle]

My car is going single as we speak a full rebuild including gearbox and respray and I am in at 37k so no it ain't cheap if you want it done properly

[mellonman]

Mines a VVTI facelift auto and its booked in for single conversion next month. So far I've spent about £9.5k (including my Titan box) still got fitting, mapping etc on top yet.

 

 

/QUOTE]

What ever ecu you go for make sure you retain the stock ecu for gearbox control regardless of what mapper says , they never work as good as stock factomondo. See and hear endless unhappy people with it ! Go through the build threads and pm some people for real road use opinions , you can buy me a pint later