Scooter Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 It's hard to say what's representative as so far not many have put up there's for show, but I'd certainly recommend all to have a look underneath. The state of the sill lips (that often get crushed) the sill section just in front of the rear wheels, the exhaust hanger and fuel tank guard are all very easy to inspect and will tend to tell you a lot about the stuff you can't see so easily without jacking it right up. If you inspect and treat early then full subframe off and line replacement might be able to be put on the back burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 If you inspect and treat early then full subframe off and line replacement might be able to be put on the back burner. The sub frame off isn't a massive job. Its only 13 bolts, 2 cables and 2 leads and its off. The sub frame rust is prominent on the top of the frame and the floor of the car is rusted at that same area where the frame sits so it must be an area of weak protection, there is no sign of any factory applied over paint protection in that area like there is in the wheel arches. Frame off gives a unrestricted waist high opportunity to look things over, on the frame that came off the rear diff mount bushes feel very spongy. That could lead to transmission hop. Frame off also makes it easy to change all the old bolts for new (while you still can), lots of the 21 year old bolts were giving way on the teardown especially so with the 8 small high torque bolts on the rear cushion mounts. My car should represent worst case jspec as it has been on UK roads since 1998. Having said that the caveat would be its been a fastidiously maintained never wanted for anything worst case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 It's more massive on a drive way, but I get your point and if, as you are, you are doing all new arms etc it makes sense as you'll need the geometry resetting regardless. Now mine is mot'd again, now or more likely in the spring I'm going to remove the diff and possibly some of the same bits as before (exhaust etc) and have another clean up and assess and will work around the frame if I don't discover any nastiness, just personal preference at this stage due to my own circumstances. I'll be interested to see your prep and painting experiences and the overall result, it's good these threads are starting to crop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 It's more massive on a drive way, . Having a full rise lift certainly makes any work under a car a lot easier compared to stands. Mark did say to me when he took his frame off with the car on stands it wasn't that difficult. Maybe he can chip in with how easy/hard it was when he did his black UK and if the rust was more evident and advanced in the area above the frame on that car? That car will have had a slightly longer run on UK roads than my car has. I recall he said the underside was just surface rust and cleaned up lovely so it does look like Supras hold up well regardless. The only thing for people to consider is how long would it take for surface rust to become established rust? I feel I'm fortunately catching it early, which is the time you'd want to tackle it. Done right with light use and dry only driving it shouldn't need looking at again in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blythmrk Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 My car should represent worst case jspec as it has been on UK roads since 1998. Having said that the caveat would be its been a fastidiously maintained never wanted for anything worst case. You are the first person to honestly state that your car has been on the UK roads for almost 20 years. All the talk of rusty UK spec cars! Many mkivs have been in the UK 15-18 years and you are correct in stating the full extent of the body and chassis condition cannot be fully assessed until the subframe is down. My UK car was no worse than yours. I have bare metalled the majority of my UK tt6 this year on axel stands so it is achievable and I found it ok as even on a ramp you are still working upside down I really should post so pictures up when I get the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 That was good timing Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blythmrk Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) I know excellent I removed the diff first then removed all subframe fixings apart from the main subframe bolts which I loosened until I few threads remained holding it. I then fitted space saver wheels and using a nice peice of wood and my trusty blue print trolley jack I gently dropped it down. Due to me leaving wheels on I simply wheeled it out from under the car and this allowed me to easily move it around on my own as they are heavy with all the arms drive shafts and discs fitted! I used the same principle in reverse on refitting this old subframe to keep my rsp tt6 shell as a rolling shell this again without a hitch on my own! I must post a thread of pics on mine one day! That's mine painted ready for fitting back up. I removed all traces of corrosion I went Around every spot weld with a die grinder! Edited October 5, 2017 by blythmrk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 Had a close look at the rear sway bar today and it has a pronounced conical wear pattern under the bush away from the retainer ring. As the OE bars are actually tubes, it probably wouldn't have lasted much longer and is being replaced anyway. This is another discontinued part with the last few remnants working through the supply chain. So anyone wanting a OE bar needs to grab one while they can. The slightly stiffer but similar design TRD ones are also gone according to sellers with a few still around on US sales sites. Once they are all gone it'll be much stiffer solid track bars or adjustable bars as the replacement option. If I get time, I'll take a picture of the wear pattern and add it to this comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) The hubs are off and off to my mates for his press to fit the new bearings and handbrake shoes. Yesterday the 1m of 8mm stainless tube arrived and this afternoon the cheap pipe bender came so figured I'd do the tank breather pipe. First up the original and template didn't survive its removal from the tank and broke into two. That was a major hit straight up as I knew that was going to make the rotation angle on one bend impossible to determine accurately. So anyone doing this themselves, do try to get it off in one piece as it'll make your bend rotation angles a lot easier to determine. Never having bent pipes before I first watched . I didn't have a protractor to hand so to determine the bend angle I inserted the original pipe into the bender and rotated until it stopped and read off the handle the angle of bend and then did the same angle on the new pipe. The angle of pipe rotation required was achieved by placing the original alongside the pipe I was fabricating and rotating until I had a vertical on the next bend (effectively rotating until the original had a straight line across the bend) and then marking up the top on the pipe to be bent. Giving the two marks, around the pipe for the length before the bend and along the top of the pipe for direction of the bend. There are 7 bends in total and the cheap bending tool doesn't give enough purchase to bend 1.5mm wall tubing. One handle was braced in a vice attached to a 1/2 ton workbench and the other extended with the help of a 600mm tube that slid over the handle of the bender. Still took some effort but the tool withstood the punishment. I did have a problem with the rotation angle on the bend following the break in the original pipe and got it fully 25 degrees out. Starting from the pump housing end was the saviour to this problem as the final run up of two bends to the filler cap are fairly straight so I could secure the tube in the vice and slip over the pipe I'd used as a bend extension to bend the tube to the correct angle. These are the kind of jobs I get a lot of satisfaction from. So, I'm quite proud of my fabricated breather pipe that only cost £16 which I'd expect would be much less that from Mr T (not that thats an option now) and I get to keep the tool. To finish it off, I'll treat it to a clear coat tomorrow. Another job done. Edited October 8, 2017 by rider (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Great result. Now you need to make me one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 Great result. Now you need to make me one Making a replacement without a complete original requires the tank off the car as the only option then available is to use the clip positions on the tank as the guide instead. I'm hoping my tank will soon be back on the car and I don't have a complete original to use as a template as that disintegrated pulling out of the clips. I'll happily knock one out for you but for that to happen you would need to send me your complete breather pipe that can be used as the template and a 1m 8mm tube. That's if you dont want the enjoyment of doing it yourself. I personally like the idea of a bit I made will be running around in the car for as long as the car is running around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iky Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Great work you're doing rider. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Making a replacement without a complete original requires the tank off the car as the only option then available is to use the clip positions on the tank as the guide instead. I'm hoping my tank will soon be back on the car and I don't have a complete original to use as a template as that disintegrated pulling out of the clips. I'll happily knock one out for you but for that to happen you would need to send me your complete breather pipe that can be used as the template and a 1m 8mm tube. That's if you dont want the enjoyment of doing it yourself. I personally like the idea of a bit I made will be running around in the car for as long as the car is running around. Can you send me the links to the tube and bender you purchased. Did you flare the ends like the original? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blythmrk Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Making a replacement without a complete original requires the tank off the car as the only option then available is to use the clip positions on the tank as the guide instead. I'm hoping my tank will soon be back on the car and I don't have a complete original to use as a template as that disintegrated pulling out of the clips. I'll happily knock one out for you but for that to happen you would need to send me your complete breather pipe that can be used as the template and a 1m 8mm tube. That's if you dont want the enjoyment of doing it yourself. I personally like the idea of a bit I made will be running around in the car for as long as the car is running around. I can lend you mine if you wanted to make some copies of an original? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 Can you send me the links to the tube and bender you purchased. Did you flare the ends like the original? Its probably the cheapest one on eBay. The tube I used is one I use the quick hitch on my digger. Again you get them off eBay seller. Just get yourself the bender and then you have two options. If you go for anodised steel it wont last as long as stainless but its only 1mm wall thickness and then you could probably bend it without any extension assist. If you want to go for the 1.5mm stainless wall tube then you definately will need some extra leverage so measure up the handle of any bending tool you get and buy a tube to sleeve over it. Mine was too big a bore but then it wasn't bought for this particular job. I didn't flare the end with the bubble flare for two reasons. I dont have a flaring tool and it'd need a lot of pressure to flare 1.5mm thick stainless anyway. The hand held ones are only any good for much softer copper. I just ground down the ends on my sanding wheels to take off any rougness. Gave the pipe its clear coat and final fitting today so the tank is back ready to refit. The new pipe does look a lot better than the old one and now vents easily. I think you'll enjoy fixing yours up. The final fitting today did take a bit more fettling on the vice. I couldn't get the pipe to not pop out of one of the three clips till I did a final adjustment. If I had fabricated off a complete original I could have probably avoided all the fine tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 Great work you're doing rider. :-) Thanks. I don't feel like its really started yet as I haven't started sanding down the underside. It does feel like tinkering so far and the big task is ahead. All the gear in now stationed by the car ready to start so it just needs me to get started. If not this week, then for sure next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) Second day into sanding and some observations to share. I've only done the first pass on the drivers side so far so haven't touched from the middle to passenger side yet. First up its dirty work and I've got through probably 30 discs and 3 small wire brushes so far and two face masks. If there is so much of a faintest hint of a gap between the factory hard coat protection on the wheel housing panels and the metal expect to find you'll lose around 10 square inches of the coating before it wont part company with the metal again. The surface rust has gone a good 2 inches either side of the failed seal and a good 2 to three inches into the coating layer. I've hit good adhesion coating but I now need to sand back further to make sure its pristine metal underneath. The coating is very hard to sand but also brittle material. In the middle part the factory protection is a softer compound than the rock hard coating in the wheel housing and where that has been later waxoyl applied on top its quite bouncy. There is rusting at the panel seams and I can peel back the waxoyl plus facory protective layer. In places I've peeled off largish sections to expose a small rust edge and large sections of completely bare metal. Whether its the factory coating breaking down or reacting with the waxoyl is unknown but from the areas under the petrol tank that are like new and not touched by waxoyl I'd suspect the application of waxoyl some years ago probably has undermined the factory protection. I'm used to dealing with and keeping on top of rust on old cars having several cars over 40 years old and from what I'm seeing anyone looking to keep their Supra long term, now is about the right time to tackle a major rejuevenation especially on cars that have lived anywhere near the coast with the sea salt air for a decent period of their life; which mine hasn't. Edited October 11, 2017 by rider (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I know you are probably up to your eyeballs in dust etc but a pic or two would be great, especially of (and under) the factory coatings and areas you are more heavily sanding. Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper to get it sand blasted by a company? A local place only charged me £25 to sand blast it. Was done the same day too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 £25 to sand blast the underside of the shell? do you mean the subframe which he's already had galvanised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 £25 to sand blast the underside of the shell? do you mean the subframe which he's already had galvanised? Good point, ignore my stupid post lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) The drivers side outer inner wheel housing panel has a hole. In the corner behind the hockey stick I pulled away the OE protective coating that had a slight lift right at its bottom corner. Being in a corner it doesn't have access to grinders or sanders so hooked the screw driver blade under and started flaking the protective coating away. About 4cm in the metal was getting worse rather than better. Sure enough screw driver attack and it holed, only a 4mm hole but still a hole. Sometimes protection can be worse than no protection. There are a few areas that are heavily pitted on the driver side outer inner wing so on the lookout now for a welder to decide if any parts would be best cutting out and patching. It does seem the drivers side has taken much more of a rust hammering than the passenger side but I haven't got to sanding there yet so cursory appearance may be wrong. Though, the tank guard was rotted out on the drivers side and yet near virginal new on the passenger side. On the other parts, outside of the inner wing arch area now switched up to a large sanding disc on the grinder so the pace has picked up. Lots of heavy pitting though on the lower lip of the inner inner wheel housing panel that not even an aggressive sanding disc can get into. That's going to be the main job for the POR 15 acid etch pre paint prep. On the upside, the two central heat shields have come up nicely to sanding down. seeing they are thin gauge metal exposed to all sorts I'm surprised they have held up so well. Edited October 12, 2017 by rider (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Have you removed the odd plastic vertical (ventilation?) panel on the inside of the rear quarter (I couldn't remove it completely with the fuel tank in situ). This gives you a good look into the cavity between the rear arch and inner wing (with the tank out I'm sure you could see/check, or use a digital camera to see, the inner wing parts.....possibly even the backside of your small hole (if I've interpreted your description correctly?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Old classic cars are like beautiful mature women, they look great until you start poking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Old classic cars are like beautiful mature women, they look great until you start poking about. lol lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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