Rear sub frame swap - off for galvanzing, may turn into a project thread

[blythmrk]

I know the feeling I decided to change all the main arm bolts and adjusters with fresh although they all came straight out as they were copper slipped in! I wonder what a used set is worth?

You might as well just go and order everything new to build a new Supra

[mwilkinson]

Shamed into replacing all the nuts, bolts and cams with new just placed an order today with Amayama. Its £240 worth DDP just for the fixings (quoted £280 domestic). I already had over £50 of new fixings so a complete set of rear frame and arms bolts, washers and nuts is £300. Also ordered a front set of upper and lower arms today (next years project?), that's another £1,200. Lots of places listing front upper control arms as discontinued so if anyone wanted to stockpile probably needs to order those soon.

 

Another expensive Supra day, gone past £5k on parts alone.

 

But it's worth it in the long run.

 

No point scrimping, you'll only regret it a few years down the line.

 

Did you notice that the design of the front sub frame bush had changed slightly?

 

 

I've gone to fit my bushes and realised the old ones had an opening at the side to allow compression of the bush. The new ones no longer have this. There's still the gap between the two sides of the bush, but no longer the opening in the rubber part itself?

[Al Massey]

But it's worth it in the long run.

 

No point scrimping, you'll only regret it a few years down the line.

 

That is why I went all out and bought everything brand new.

Shame I wont get to drive with it though

[rider]

Did you notice that the design of the front sub frame bush had changed slightly?

 

 

I've gone to fit my bushes and realised the old ones had an opening at the side to allow compression of the bush. The new ones no longer have this. There's still the gap between the two sides of the bush, but no longer the opening in the rubber part itself?

 

I have only ordered the upper and lower arms at this stage. I do have a spare front sub frame that I could swap out but I'm planning on giving the front end a good look over this Autumn when the car is up on the ramp for a couple of months to assess if that is needed/worthwhile. If you have all the bush and fixing part numbers for the front then that'd be very useful to add to the stockpile I have as I'm expecting that if you never use parts yourself there will always be someone around the World willing to buy them in a few years time.

[rider]

Tear down started today, just a couple of hours with the main get it completed tomorrow when my mate is bringing his transmission jack over.

 

Today tank inspection cover removed and all fuel pipes disconnected from the top of the tank. There was a lot of dust so a quick vacuum before pulling the pipes and unscrewing the pipe clip. The pump wiring clip was the hardest part to remove probably because there isn't any spare length on the wire. Had to undo the main fuel nut with an impact as the top rotated on a ratchet.

 

 

Then onto the ABS sensors. The hubs are being retained and rather than risk breaking the sensor by removing from the hub its safer to just disconnect inside the car. Just three screws to remove on each side to remove the rear most trim. The trim behind the speakers needs to come off next and they are held on by four clips. You just need to move them in the only direction of travel they will go to slide out of the clips (don't just pull otherwise you will likely break the clips or panel). Once the two trim pieces are out its hand in under the speaker to the ABS clip, push the lever on the clip in with the thumb and with finger the other side applying pressure the connector slide out of the clip easily. The floor grommets that are part of the ABS lead can then be easily pushed through the floor. Its a task that went much easier than expected.

 

 

Then finally for today the fuel tank guard. The six 10mm bolts came out easily apart from one at the front, this was easily sorted because the front of the guard was so rotten so the bolt was left in the strap which is being replaced with new anyway. The pain part was the bumper strip with four screws, these are plastic screws and they would turn but not unscrew so they had to be pulled out through the guard brackets and bumper holes. Once out the screws could be removed and the bar straightened out so it can be re-used when refitting the new guard.

 

 

Although the outside of the guard looked not to shabby, the inside is just nasty. Anyone who has never replaced their tank guard probably should get one while you can because they do rust away largely unseen.

 

So far, so good.

Edited September 30, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[blythmrk]

Tank guard as expected tbh.

Good luck tomorrow!

[rider]

Got the tank and frame off this morning. All the bolts gave in without too much of a fight and the only thing that has defeated us is the three bolts that hold the exhaust hanger are rounding off so they will get some special treatment tomorrow when the hubs are also being removed from the dropped frame.

 

 

First up was the tank drop which came fairly easily. The fuel lines are in good shape with one exception, the breather pipe is heavily corroded. This is without any doubt because the exposed length of the breather pipe was completely buried in fine soil. All the fuel lines are being replaced and I'll order a new breather tomorrow. Also a new Walbro pump is going to be fitted to replace the still original pump while the tank is down. Removing the tank gives good access to the rear bumper bar and obviously the metalwork around and above the tank housing. There is a good bit of sanding that'll be done in the wheel arches but they look pretty good. Mechanic matey who has helped with the teardown recons for the ago of car its in fantastic condition.

 

 

Once the tank was removed the propshaft bolts, handbrake cables and 10 frame bolts were removed. The ABS cables had been fed through and the frame dropped on the forks of the telehandler using a pallet plaform to get under the bumper. The heat shields were also removed to ease access to the handbrake cable yoke.

 

 

Total time including the prelim work yesterday has been 4 hours.

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[Scooter]

re the exhaust hanger, you can try and wire brush the tops as the bolts come up through the bit they are bolted into and then put penetrant spray on the top so gravity is working for you, might help just enough?

[rider]

Given the tops of the two exposed bolts a good dousing in penetrating fluid but it think its going to need some serious remedies which is either grind fresh flats to try some pin socket extractors failing that I'll probably drill the bolt as I also have a set of reverse thread bolt and stud extractors. I'm not about to be defeated by three 10mm bolts. If the alsolute worst happens two of them can be replaced with a bolt and nut anyway.

[rider]

Spent 3 hours this morning pressure washing and then steaming the underside and also the frame and tank that came off yesterday. Lots of dirt hidden away in crevices and a lot of blasted off underseal, which is good because I don't like underseal seeing it hides rust well. There is a fair amount of surface rust along the front of the tank guard area and along the sides of the tank guard area. The drivers side seems to take a lot more punishment than the passenger side for some reason. Its all light surface stuff apart from the sections that support the brake flexible hose coupling which do have pitting. Its not like that's structural though. There will be a fair amount of sanding to do this week using my compressor and two air sanders.

 

I've bought in supplies of POR 15 degreaser, prep and paint. I've gone for black POR 15 which I'll cover in a top coat of black acrylic paint so all the newly uncovered white wont be long lived. It'd be so much effort to get the black underseal and painted areas back to white, way more than to turn the clean white areas to semi-gloss black. Seeing the reason to do this is to stamp on any rust before it breaks out or before it takes hold, the underbody colour is not top priority. I'll also treat and paint the diff and drive shafts in the POR black. The diff cooler has wire brushed up nice on the little bit I worked on today so I wont be painting that part. I also have a pot of POR silver to apply to the bumper bar. On top of that have 4 aerosols of Dinitrol 3125 to spray into all holes. Pitching to get the car fully assembled and rolling again by the end of November with a back underside clean enough to lick.

 

Mr T says the breather pipe across the top of the tank is discontinued so I'll just buy in some 8mm stainless and have a go bending up the just under 1m length myself. The picture below shows the deterioration in the breather pipe that was caused by it being totally encased in soil for probably a good few years. Its definitely a worthwhile job for people to take off their tank guard (only 6 bolts and 4 plastic screws) and filler tube shield to have a look see what is going on inside there before the guards become a discontinued item.

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[mwilkinson]

That same breather pipe has perished on mine too. I'm interested in what you use to replace this as I will need to do the same with mine.

[Scooter]

Given the tops of the two exposed bolts a good dousing in penetrating fluid but it think its going to need some serious remedies which is either grind fresh flats to try some pin socket extractors failing that I'll probably drill the bolt as I also have a set of reverse thread bolt and stud extractors. I'm not about to be defeated by three 10mm bolts. If the alsolute worst happens two of them can be replaced with a bolt and nut anyway.

 

In my under body prodding around these bolts and the mount itself were the lowest quality items/rustiest pieces I encountered. At least on a ramp you have good clearance for drilling if necessary.

[Scooter]

Just some info on my experience with POR.

 

The silver needs a good stir as it settles at the bottom more so than black (I haven't tried my 'clear' yet).

 

I had tiny pots 113ml, the black did the whole tank cover with ease (the silver just about all 4 heat shields), to give you an idea of coverage I didn't have anything else prepped so it got wasted (Ideally you need to tip an amount into another container especially if you have a large pot to not contaminate) Also the lid can get 'welded' on if there is some paint on the rim. I've heard some people using wood screws through the lid to reseal/re pour. Also brushes will be a use and throwaway.

[rider]

Just some info on my experience with POR.

 

The silver needs a good stir as it settles at the bottom more so than black (I haven't tried my 'clear' yet).

 

Thats useful to know. I have bought the bigger tins, quart I think. Going to have everything prepped so it should be a one hit, one brush go around. Top tip on resealing I've used with other things that go rock hard is place clingfilm over the can before sealing. If its something thats going to attack plastic films then I have also used a nitrile rubber glove as the membrane between the lid and the can.

 

Planning on doing heat shields and rear bumper bar in silver. The diff casing, drive shafts, hubs and everything else in black. I'll only use the POR on treated parts so I'm hoping one can will be enough and I've got 2 large cans of 182 primer and 6 large cans of gloss black acrylic and 6 large cans of matt black acrylic to finish the job. I plan on using the matt as base coat and if then deciding whether to semi-gloss or do another coat of matt.

 

Having a ramp does make things easier which is good as I think I'll be spending the best part of a week just sanding before even getting to the metal paint prep stage. Hate to think how much people pay to get this done professionally.

Edited October 2, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[rider]

That same breather pipe has perished on mine too. I'm interested in what you use to replace this as I will need to do the same with mine.

 

I've got everyone scouring the World for a new breather pipe. If nothing comes in then I'll buy either 1m of 8mm stainless for £12 or 1m of 8mm anodised aluminium pipe for £3 along with a cheap pipe bending tool and have a go. I have hour glass sand on site so I'd pack the pipe with this very fine sand and with the original still intact as a template I'd use the bender and see how it ends up. The anodised aluminium is probably easier to work with (much easier to bend). You can pop down your local Wicks to buy the anodised tube, for around £4.

 

If I made a anodised one sucessfully I know I'd then feel compelled to try the stainless just because its more durable. So I could sell you the anodised one!

[blythmrk]

Why not use a length of reinforced fuel pipe?

[rider]

Why not use a length of reinforced fuel pipe?

 

There are on tank has clips for the metal line that route away from the apex of the tank. Possibly a unsecured rubber hose could find itself getting squashed when the straps are tightened? The tube start and ends in a rubber length so Mr T must have had a good reason to metal tube the bit between.

[blythmrk]

There are on tank has clips for the metal line that route away from the apex of the tank. Possibly a unsecured rubber hose could find itself getting squashed when the straps are tightened? The tube start and ends in a rubber length so Mr T must have had a good reason to metal tube the bit between.

 

I see what you mean now looking at my jspec tank but yet another UK difference then is that the UK/Euro spec tanks have metal reinforced fuel pipe type material breather pipes with larger plastic clips that seem to clip into the tank.

I am sending you a whats app pic of my spare j spec breather as its in pretty good cond. if any use;)

[mwilkinson]

I've got everyone scouring the World for a new breather pipe. If nothing comes in then I'll buy either 1m of 8mm stainless for £12 or 1m of 8mm anodised aluminium pipe for £3 along with a cheap pipe bending tool and have a go. I have hour glass sand on site so I'd pack the pipe with this very fine sand and with the original still intact as a template I'd use the bender and see how it ends up. The anodised aluminium is probably easier to work with (much easier to bend). You can pop down your local Wicks to buy the anodised tube, for around £4.

 

If I made a anodised one sucessfully I know I'd then feel compelled to try the stainless just because its more durable. So I could sell you the anodised one!

 

sounds like a great idea. I'd definitely be interested. Depending how you get on maybe you should make a couple of the steel ones. Undoubtably this will be a popular part for any full rear end restoration.

[rider]

Took a close up look at the dropped frame last night when the diff and drive shafts came out because tonight it'll be hubs off. The arm bolts protruding the nuts look in a really bad shape so ordering new fittings has proved to be the correct choice as none of these can be recycled. So anyone considering doing this should get the fittings for the arms beforehand. I'm still waiting on my fitting almost 4 weeks after ordering from Amayama Japan, not even shipped yet.

 

On the diff and drive shafts the splines and ABS rings look like new. Just some slight surface rust on the dif casing and the shafts that'll be treated and POR 15 black coated.

[ripped_fear]

Nice thread baz. Good to see it getting some love.

 

If/when you want to sell your old frame drop me a buz

 

 

[Dnk]

I'd use something like this

 

https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=4091&g=553140&p=553215&d=124&c=4&l=2&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Oil%20Hose&gclid=CjwKCAjw6szOBRAFEiwAwzixBddELrgIblO9zfdGliT3K4sefqE2Llu2b9slcAzcmVJQbg0QzujexhoC5_MQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[rider]

Ive ordered myself a 1M length of 8mm od stainless tube of an eBay seller for around £8 and a cheapee bender for around £8 so I'll have a go at bending a new breather pipe (which I measured at a little under lM). I'll post the result, good or bad. I'm quietly confident I'll do a decent to good copy but I know I'll get nervous on the last bend. When I veneered my MGB dash in a strip of American Oak all was a breeze till I got to the last panel because you know if you screw up at that point it fucks it all up.

 

Recycling some parts off the old frame today, got off the front mount bush clamps (discontinued and not on my swap frame) and the sway bar bush brackets (not on my swap frame) and they are now pickling in an acetic acid bath. The bolts on both parts were abused with an undersized hex socket and a 600mm extension to get them off so it'll be new M8 stainless ones going on the swap frame as I haven't ordered the OE M8/20's for these parts.

 

Underside sanding will probably have to wait until the weekend.

Edited October 3, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[rider]

Cleared out the last remaining 6 bolts today. Three from the rear most heat shield (that is not there except for fragments remaining under the bolts) came out with a bit of coercion. Three holding the butchered remnants of the redundant but going to be reinstated with new exhaust hanger would not yield. I tried 4mm drill so I could apply screw extractors but broke two drills as the bolt metal is very hard material. Upped to 5mm but that is too close to the M6 bolt size so screw extractors just sheared off the head of the bolt leaving the screw stub to be drilled out.

 

Took a while because the bolts are made of very hard metal but finally got the three original bolts drilled out and tapped for the new bolts. Just need to angle grind off the bespoke hanger welded to the floor (very close to the fuel tank) by MIJ exhausts as it goes at and below where the heat shield sits, then I can fit my new heat shield. Pity MIJ didn't removed the hanger and shield the normal way, by removing the bolts which would have saved me a lengthy drilling task today. Still another thing done.

 

 

Hubs coming off tonight and having new wheel bearing and bush fitted. Amayama have not shipped the suspension arm bolts, nuts and adjustment cams paid for over 3 weeks ago yet in spite of the we will ship within 4 days promise on their website meaning reassembly is at least 3 weeks off. So there will be no need to rush on the sanding, prep and painting.

Edited October 4, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[rider]

Just taking stock of the sanding and paint prep work ahead today and the areas you would normally see are all in great shape, such as the wheel arches. Its where the sub frame sits where the rust really gets a hold and that's an area you would never normally get to see. I've attached three pictures that show the difference of the wheel arches which are near perfect to the frame front mount towers that has very minor surface rust to the worst area above the frame that actually has penetrative rust in parts. Its nothing serious and nothing a wire brush and sanding wont sort out. It is though the kind of rust that I could imagine if left unchecked would eventually rot out.

 

 

I have had all the covers off the front to rear fuel and brake lines and I'm having second thoughts about fitting the new set of pipes as those on the car are in perfect condition apart from a 7cm length on the three fuel lines (brake lines are copper) between the exit from the under car cover and the front of the subframe. I'll sand them and have a close look to see if there is any pitting as it only looks to be very minor surface rust. If they are good I will just keep the new ones for some other time.

 

 

If my car is representative of what happens rust wise underneath a Supra anyone considering restorative work does need to do so with the sub frame off the car.

Edited October 5, 2017 by rider (see edit history)