Politics question

[Jellybean]

Tories To Make Deal With DUP After Satan Pulls Out lol

 

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/06/09/tories-to-make-deal-with-dup-after-satan-pulls-out/

[Al Massey]

Haha, I'm sure the social justice warriors will have a shield of hurt feelings to push you all back.

 

Oh, then we are screwed, our bullets can't penetrate that

[Frank Bullitt]

Absolutely, I thought intervention in both these countries was foolhardy, especially Libya.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself, spot on Chris. If these guys had been left alone you wouldn't have ISIS/ISIL doing what they are now.

 

Whilst the young (new?) Labour voters are having a hand party in glee at how they have swung things they might ponder that they still have a Conservative governement, but now they have one tied umbilically with a party that is FAR more Right wing than May's lot. The DUP hold some views that might make the young Leftist lions currently setting fire to Twitter (so I am told...) weep

 

Idiots the lot of them, i'm waiting for the anti-abortion laws make a come back!

 

Oh, and it looks like Nigel's back....

 

I understood why he did but he should have never left.

[AlexJames]

Whilst the young (new?) Labour voters are having a hand party in glee at how they have swung things they might ponder that they still have a Conservative governement, but now they have one tied umbilically with a party that is FAR more Right wing than May's lot. The DUP hold some views that might make the young Leftist lions currently setting fire to Twitter (so I am told...) weep.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head there my friend!

[Al Massey]

Couldn't have put it better myself, spot on Chris. If these guys had been left alone you wouldn't have ISIS/ISIL doing what they are now.

QUOTE]

 

That is in hindsight, and there were pros and cons to the interventions.

Admittedly we made mistakes and the biggest one was leaving.

 

And there was no way anyone saw this coming.

 

But do we really leave in horrible dictators and human rights abusers because our society is better for it?

[Scooter]

Couldn't have put it better myself, spot on Chris. If these guys had been left alone you wouldn't have ISIS/ISIL doing what they are now.

QUOTE]

 

That is in hindsight, and there were pros and cons to the interventions.

Admittedly we made mistakes and the biggest one was leaving.

 

And there was no way anyone saw this coming.

 

But do we really leave in horrible dictators and human rights abusers because our society is better for it?

 

If they are far enough away yes!? It some cases it's almost better to not help than try and then fail? That's not to belittle anyone's efforts in trying to help but stepping back, have we overall helped in the middle east to the extent that the majority of people there think we are 'good eggs'? I suspect lots think we were at best ineffective in the long run and at worse in some way the cause of their current and on going (with limited short term hope of a decent future ) predicament? How many think we were well intentioned and did the best we could for them?

[Frank Bullitt]

 

That is in hindsight, and there were pros and cons to the interventions.

Admittedly we made mistakes and the biggest one was leaving.

 

And there was no way anyone saw this coming.

 

But do we really leave in horrible dictators and human rights abusers because our society is better for it?

 

As you say, hindsight is a wonderful thing. But there were signs of what was to come going as far back as the late 80's after the Soviet Union withdrew from Afghanistan. When ISIS/ISIL/Daesh were classed as too brutal for Osama Bin Laden people should have listened.

 

I think if you have a dictator who has control over 80%-90% of all their domain then yes, leave them alone as long as it doesn't effect us. Why get involved in a Civil War? I understand the idea of protecting peoples freedom but disagree with our service men and women dying for what I believe is an unnecessary intervention.

 

I know you have served and I understand your passion and tip my hat to you and all our service men and women for what they sacrifice. But I feel it was all unnecessary and our service men and women could have been put to better use.

 

Granted what people face in the East is horrific but without wanting to sound harsh is that really our problem? I just wish the UK would stop being so bloody PC for once and concentrate on sorting things out at home before dabbling in others nations issues.

[formatzero]

Whilst the young (new?) Labour voters are having a hand party in glee at how they have swung things they might ponder that they still have a Conservative governement, but now they have one tied umbilically with a party that is FAR more Right wing than May's lot. The DUP hold some views that might make the young Leftist lions currently setting fire to Twitter (so I am told...) weep.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Oh, and it looks like Nigel's back....

 

Trouble with the young voters is they weren't around to remember Labour before it went Blairite ! They won't know who Harold Wilson was, or that Labour always promise the earth then can't afford to pay for what they promise,if they could everyone would vote for them.

[Al Massey]

As you say, hindsight is a wonderful thing. But there were signs of what was to come going as far back as the late 80's after the Soviet Union withdrew from Afghanistan. When ISIS/ISIL/Daesh were classed as too brutal for Osama Bin Laden people should have listened.

 

I think if you have a dictator who has control over 80%-90% of all their domain then yes, leave them alone as long as it doesn't effect us. Why get involved in a Civil War? I understand the idea of protecting peoples freedom but disagree with our service men and women dying for what I believe is an unnecessary intervention.

 

I know you have served and I understand your passion and tip my hat to you and all our service men and women for what they sacrifice. But I feel it was all unnecessary and our service men and women could have been put to better use.

 

Granted what people face in the East is horrific but without wanting to sound harsh is that really our problem? I just wish the UK would stop being so bloody PC for once and concentrate on sorting things out at home before dabbling in others nations issues.

 

Yeah but we supported, trained and armed Al Qaeda to stop the Russians in Afghanistan, we should have carried on helping them, or not bother to start with.

 

I agree now, in hindsight it was a bad idea, only because of the lessons we learnt.

 

But on the other side of the coin, we could have done more.

Look at the Middle East in the 60's and 70's.

It was a fairly "western" style area, lovely beautiful place.

 

Either we helped destroy it or didn't do enough to help it.

 

Surely, we can't progress as a race if we don't help out our fellow man.

Can we really sit by and do nothing?

 

Would you do the same if a bully was bullying another person in the street?

 

Our main problem in Iraq was they weren't ready for freedom, or western democracy.

They hadn't evolved to that point yet and we gave it to them on a silver platter.

 

Funny thing is, is that if we still had the empire, or ruled like when we had the empire, Iraq and Afghanistan could have been fixed and sorted.

 

But that's changing one dictator for another, would ours have been better?

Who knows.

[Al Massey]

 

If they are far enough away yes!? It some cases it's almost better to not help than try and then fail? That's not to belittle anyone's efforts in trying to help but stepping back, have we overall helped in the middle east to the extent that the majority of people there think we are 'good eggs'? I suspect lots think we were at best ineffective in the long run and at worse in some way the cause of their current and on going (with limited short term hope of a decent future ) predicament? How many think we were well intentioned and did the best we could for them?

 

Well to be fair, we didn't think we would fail, it was an open and shut case at the time.

 

And yes, at the time, the locals loved us.

They would walk up to us in the streets and thank us, give us gifts and invite us into their homes.

But after a few years it started to turn sour.

And then they started to resent us.

 

And after pulling out, they probably blame us for everything, but we did so at the request of their government that they voted in.

[Frank Bullitt]

I agree now, in hindsight it was a bad idea, only because of the lessons we learnt

 

One would have hoped so but now they are moving on to Bashar al-Assad, I don't think any lessons have been learnt.

 

But on the other side of the coin, we could have done more.

Look at the Middle East in the 60's and 70's.

It was a fairly "western" style area, lovely beautiful place.

 

Either we helped destroy it or didn't do enough to help it.

 

Why is it down to us? We aren't here to baby sit the rest of the world and hold everyones hand through all of life's problems. Civil War is just that, a war between citizens of the same country. If they have a problem they should sort it out like we did back in the mid 1600's when the "Roundheads" and "Cavaliers" went to war.

 

Surely, we can't progress as a race if we don't help out our fellow man.

Can we really sit by and do nothing?

 

Of course we can progress, no one is saying you can't empathise or sympathise but since when were the worlds problems down to us to sort out? The UK should start looking closer to home if it wants to make changes for the better. If it is political or religious and overseas it is not our place to get involved imo.

 

Would you do the same if a bully was bullying another person in the street?

 

Of course I wouldn't ignore that and I haven't in the past.

 

Don't get me wrong I totally understand where you are coming from but in this day in age don't we not just make things worse by interfering? Take Saddam Hussain & Osama Bin Laden, from our point of view murdering tyrants but by eliminating them we have just made thing worse not better.

 

We have also managed put the UK firmly in the sites of a bunch of nutters who think we are all fair game because of what happened. We are getting involved in religions and fairly backward cultures* that we know very little about. In an ideal world there would be a balance of wealth and we wouldn't have the elderly and children starving to death while the rest of the world throws away tonnes of food on a daily basis.

 

Our main problem in Iraq was they weren't ready for freedom, or western democracy.

They hadn't evolved to that point yet and we gave it to them on a silver platter.

 

Again Western ideals being put on Eastern people, is that not what caused these problem in the first place. Where do we get off putting our ideals on other people, cultures and nations. We all evolve at different rates and in different ways, what is right for one nation is not necessarily right for another.

 

 

 

 

* By backwards cultures I mean cultures that think stoning to death of women, raping of women, sex with both male and female children, death sentences for poultry crimes are all acceptable.

[Annabella]

Gather Colonel Sanders won't be there any time soon.

[Al Massey]

One would have hoped so but now they are moving on to Bashar al-Assad, I don't think any lessons have been learnt.

 

 

 

Why is it down to us? We aren't here to baby sit the rest of the world and hold everyones hand through all of life's problems. Civil War is just that, a war between citizens of the same country. If they have a problem they should sort it out like we did back in the mid 1600's when the "Roundheads" and "Cavaliers" went to war.

 

 

 

Of course we can progress, no one is saying you can't empathise or sympathise but since when were the worlds problems down to us to sort out? The UK should start looking closer to home if it wants to make changes for the better. If it is political or religious and overseas it is not our place to get involved imo.

 

 

 

Of course I wouldn't ignore that and I haven't in the past.

 

Don't get me wrong I totally understand where you are coming from but in this day in age don't we not just make things worse by interfering? Take Saddam Hussain & Osama Bin Laden, from our point of view murdering tyrants but by eliminating them we have just made thing worse not better.

 

We have also managed put the UK firmly in the sites of a bunch of nutters who think we are all fair game because of what happened. We are getting involved in religions and fairly backward cultures* that we know very little about. In an ideal world there would be a balance of wealth and we wouldn't have the elderly and children starving to death while the rest of the world throws away tonnes of food on a daily basis.

 

 

 

Again Western ideals being put on Eastern people, is that not what caused these problem in the first place. Where do we get off putting our ideals on other people, cultures and nations. We all evolve at different rates and in different ways, what is right for one nation is not necessarily right for another.

 

 

* By backwards cultures I mean cultures that think stoning to death of women, raping of women, sex with both male and female children, death sentences for poultry crimes are all acceptable.

 

Syria is a different ball game and have no idea why we are involved to be honest.

 

We weren't the only ones that went.

People tend to focus on the UK and the US, but there was many countries there doing what at the time we thought was right, helping and defending those in need.

 

We as a country can progress, but only up to a certain point, but as a species, we will never progress enough.

 

Maybe this is why we voted brexit, maybe we need brexit, to break away from being politically tied down so we can concentrate on us.

 

Again, we know this in hindsight, we never expected this, at the start we made a difference, we did the right thing for the people, for innocent men, women and children.

We made mistakes, not only in their ideology or beliefs but in thinking terrorists would walk away.

We didn't expect the terrorists to destroy the lives of people and then get them to turn against us.

 

The idea seems stupid but somehow the terrorists managed it.

 

To be fair, those places had "western"

Ideals decades ago.

Hundreds of years ago they had a democracy similar to ours.

We just never understood the shit they had been through for decades.

 

And again to be fair, the western world wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for the British Empire.

 

We had lessons to learn from

Back then too, many lives were lost while we dragged civilisations from the dark ages.

But we carried on, thinking we were doing the right thing.

 

And I agree with the backwards comment.

Maybe there is no hope for them and maybe we should just shut up shop, let them battle it out, but in doing so, we could actually make it worse.

 

Who know what may or may not happen.

[samdale]

And I agree with the backwards comment.

Maybe there is no hope for them and maybe we should just shut up shop, let them battle it out, but in doing so, we could actually make it worse.

 

My 2p? I think the highlighted bit is the problem. We could make it better or worse by going "over there" or not. Nobody knows for sure and nobody knew for certain, back before previous conflicts. However one costs the UK much time, effort, money and most importantly of all, lives. The other does not.

[Al Massey]

My 2p? I think the highlighted bit is the problem. We could make it better or worse by going "over there" or not. Nobody knows for sure and nobody knew for certain, back before previous conflicts. However one costs the UK much time, effort, money and most importantly of all, lives. The other does not.

 

In doing nothing, we could be making it worse.

Lives could still be lost.

 

What if we didn't invade Iraq, and in not doing so he invades Kuwait.

carries on his development of long range missiles and chemical weapon manufacturing, both of which were actually true, just wasn't very good at it.

 

Then decides he wants to invade another country and so on.

 

Which to be honest is plausible.

[Chris Wilson]

* By backwards cultures I mean cultures that think stoning to death of women, raping of women, sex with both male and female children, death sentences for poultry crimes are all acceptable.

 

 

Poultry crimes? Typo, paltry surely? (Looking at Henrietta the hen and thinking please no, not even in the Middle east, however frustrated Abdul was....?)

[Annabella]

Poultry crimes? Typo, paltry surely? (Looking at Henrietta the hen and thinking please no, not even in the Middle east, however frustrated Abdul was....?)

 

Finally someone else, it's all a bit KFC.

[Frank Bullitt]

Poultry crimes? Typo, paltry surely? (Looking at Henrietta the hen and thinking please no, not even in the Middle east, however frustrated Abdul was....?)

 

Nope, definitely crimes against Chickens the poor little things All joking aside don't even get me started on the Halal thing.

 

(That will teach me not to proof read )

[Jellybean]

Meanwhile downing street hosts a reception to welcome their new DUP colleagues

 

 

[MaveriK]

Trouble with the young voters is they weren't around to remember Labour before it went Blairite ! They won't know who Harold Wilson was, or that Labour always promise the earth then can't afford to pay for what they promise,if they could everyone would vote for them.

 

This many times over, so frustrated with some peoples opinions who truly cant know or understand the mess Labour leave us in after years of spending money we dont have. And lets not forget that, at best, their 3 top morons are IRA sympathizers.

[el_bandido]

And lets not forget that, at best, their 3 top morons are IRA sympathizers.

 

Not sure that's an argument now the government is in bed with the DUP.

[Annabella]

Uh? DUP are pro UK.

[el_bandido]

The DUP are the political arm of protestant loyalist paramilitary groups. Just because they are pro UK doesn't mean they aren't terrorists.

[Al Massey]

The DUP are the political arm of protestant loyalist paramilitary groups. Just because they are pro UK doesn't mean they aren't terrorists.

 

Woah hold on, if we can't call Sinn Fein terrorists and want their leaders hanged, we can't call the DUP terrorists either.

[el_bandido]

I'm quite happy to call them all terrorists. I'm not advocating the death penalty though.