JS2004 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Hey guys, Looking for a bit of help with this one - filled out the template below with some extra info Model: JSpec Auto ECU: Stock What the symptoms are: Under what conditions they occur: Failure to start. Engine makes turnover sound but doesnt catch and the sound gradually gets slower / quieter When it happens: Happened this morning, but has happened a few other mornings recently (but does start eventually) When it started to misbehave: Approx 2 weeks ago started to see the issue What you've tried to do to fix it: I have cleaned the battery connectors and taken it for a long drive when it did start What effect those fixing attempts had: Seemed to improve initially but has returned Extra info Recently when starting from cold the engine turns over but doesn't start. Normally fires within one or two 'chugs' (not sure how else to describe the sound), but recently it will take 5-10 before starting, however this morning it didn't start and the sound was as if the battery was dying. Issue started about 2 weeks ago and I took it for a longer drive to try and charge up and cleaned the battery clamp connectors (they were fuzzed up with white stuff) with a wire brush. It feels like a battery issue but I want to check before buying a new one. Alternator was changed about 3 yrs ago to new and the starter motor was refurbished around the same time. I will do a voltage check tonight when I get in. From other posts it looks like I should see 12.5+v when car is off and 14+v when it is on?? If the alternator is charging okay I will run and get a new battery - Halfords HCB005 looks the way to go from the battery thread. I did spot these portable battery pack things like the ones used for phones.. has anyone on here tried using them? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suaoki-Emergency-Intelligent-Rechargeable-Flashlight/dp/B01ESJ34II/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1483953254&sr=8-20&keywords=car+battery+jump ? Cheers guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 If it turns over 4-5 times without firing this is not usual, it's not totally clear from the description but it sounds like the battery is dying because it's not starting not that the battery is low hence it's not starting, does that sound right? Dizzy/rotor arm, leads etc inspection seems a reasonable thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 If it turns over 4-5 times without firing this is not usual, it's not totally clear from the description but it sounds like the battery is dying because it's not starting not that the battery is low hence it's not starting, does that sound right? Dizzy/rotor arm, leads etc inspection seems a reasonable thing to do. This does make sense to me yes - the battery seems to die as a result of the failed start. Over the last couple of weeks it would eventually start but sometimes I had to leave it for the battery to 'recover' and go back to it. I will search for threads on Dizzy / Rotor arm & Leads and give them a check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Have you got a battery charger? It may be worth using a Ctek for a week or so and see if this keeps the car "fresh" on start up. Are you doing a lot of short journeys with the heater, RHW etc on? Sounds to me like the battery is only accepting a limited charge. Putting it on a trickle charger, may improve this and check the de-ionised water levels in the battery. I had similar with my TT a while ago. H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Have you got a battery charger? It may be worth using a Ctek for a week or so and see if this keeps the car "fresh" on start up. Are you doing a lot of short journeys with the heater, RHW etc on? Sounds to me like the battery is only accepting a limited charge. Putting it on a trickle charger, may improve this and check the de-ionised water levels in the battery. I had similar with my TT a while ago. H. I don't have a battery charger unfortunately but do have another car I can hook it up to with jump leads. A lot of short, slow journeys recently commuting and yes, heater and rear heated windscreen are on (guessing that is what RHW means?). Will have a check with a few mates and see if they have a charger I can borrow for a week or so too along with checking what Scooter has suggested. If it isn't starting when I have it connected to the second car would that rule out the battery as being the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I just bought a few smart chargers, CTEK MXS 5.0 models which are around £60 each through Amazon which are doing what they are supposed to do. You can leave the charging leads hard wired to your battery and just snap plug into the charger lead plug when you get home or it has the normal croc clips; assuming you don't live on a high floor of a block of flats. The advantage of a smart charger is they charge then maintain the charge so aren't on unless the battery is actually being charged. May be worth you looking into that as a means to maintain a ready to go charged battery through the higher power draw winter months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I have never had a Supra take more than 5-6 turns to fire up unless it had a problem. The fact it got gradually worse smacks of something wearing out to me let that be a lesson next time to research causes before it gets to non starting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Haha yes - I should have checked. Just assumed with all of the cold weather and short journeys that I had worn the battery down a bit. Now that I am home I will have a look around and see what (if anything - mechanically limited myself) I can do. It is a shame the garages close by the time I have left work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Update.. battery fine 12v plus when off, over 14 when idle.. also it did start after three turns.. now warmed up it starts on the first. So a bit odd but I'm going to take it into a garage anyways, but may have to wait until Saturday and just get a lift into work. Any advice on what I should do between now and then ? Should I try to start it daily ? Distributor cap has a bit of oil around it bit the leads 'look' okay - although not sure what I should be looking at. It's currently idling fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Update - been to see mechanic. Looks like moisture in the distributor cap and the connectors from the leads do looked so-so, but one of them was more worn. The HT lead into the dizzy itself is cracked near the housing and the plastic clip was quite brittle and broke off when we tried to move it. I will replace the dizzy cap and get some new or used leads. In addition to the above as the we spotted a leak on the rocker gasket cover so I will replace that and I will throw a new set of plugs in too! Shopping time.. Hopefully I can get my hands on all of this stuff! We are going to replace the plugs whilst we are at it and there is a slight leak on the rocker gasket cover so I will replace that also.. shopping time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Get new leads as they break down over time. I remember them being about £120 or so from Toyota. Sounds like when you get it on a decent run, it loses the moisture out of the dizzy cap, then when it goes cold it was getting damp again. At least you know what the issues are. My NA had similar problems but that was a long time ago. H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Yeah that seems to be the issue. There was only a minor amount in the dizzy cap when we looked at it but it had been running so was warm - and it was the middle of the day which is not the conditions where the problem arises. The crack in the lead is probably where its getting in. Speaking to Keron and getting prices in morning so should be fixed soon - plus it doesnt hurt to change the plugs over and sort out the rocker at the same time. Thanks for the help / advice guys ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraLEDrears Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Yeah that seems to be the issue. There was only a minor amount in the dizzy cap when we looked at it but it had been running so was warm - and it was the middle of the day which is not the conditions where the problem arises. The crack in the lead is probably where its getting in. Speaking to Keron and getting prices in morning so should be fixed soon - plus it doesnt hurt to change the plugs over and sort out the rocker at the same time. Thanks for the help / advice guys ! Also your battery should show at least 12.5v when the car is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Aye battery was over 12 when off - its an old multimeter with a needle but was clearly well over the 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraLEDrears Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Aye battery was over 12 when off - its an old multimeter with a needle but was clearly well over the 12. I was just saying cause since my mate had his Clifford alarm installed, he has the same issue. It's draining the battery somewhere and the installer is blaming the sound system. The amps were installed 2 years before the alarm and there were never any issues. Even bought a new battery and the car would only turn over and not start. He has to connect a booster pack for it to start and apparently the installer is way too busy ATM to trace any problems because he reckons it's not his fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Seen in a few threads about alarms draining batteries but only if they're left for a while. If it was a large company that did the install he could try social media route to get their attention. Or get the issue traced by a 3rd party to prove bad install? Bit of an awkward one ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 What the symptoms are: Under what conditions they occur: Failure to start. Engine makes turnover sound but doesnt catch and the sound gradually gets slower / quieter Extra info Recently when starting from cold the engine turns over but doesn't start. Normally fires within one or two 'chugs' (not sure how else to describe the sound), but recently it will take 5-10 before starting, however this morning it didn't start and the sound was as if the battery was dying. Update.. battery fine 12v plus when off, over 14 when idle.. also it did start after three turns.. now warmed up it starts on the first. Any advice on what I should do between now and then ? Should I try to start it daily ? Your symptoms sound consistent with a partially knackered battery. When batteries get older they don't hold their charge for as long - they'll hold it for several days as opposed to 2+ weeks. When they degrade more, they'll only hold it for a couple of days, then eventually not even a day. You could try taking it for a long drive, then parking it up overnight (the alarm won't work, of course!) and removing the negative battery cable from the battery, to prevent any parasitic drain. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the 12v off / 14v on readings. 14v when on is telling you the alternator is OK. But a slightly knackered battery can still show 12v off - it's when you try to put a load across the battery (e.g. starter motor) that it gets caned. You could start it daily to top up the battery, and see if that makes a difference. Personally I'd buy a battery charger/conditioner like a Ctek and leave that on overnight, until you get it fixed. I was just saying cause since my mate had his Clifford alarm installed, he has the same issue. It's draining the battery somewhere and the installer is blaming the sound system. The amps were installed 2 years before the alarm and there were never any issues. Even bought a new battery and the car would only turn over and not start. He has to connect a booster pack for it to start and apparently the installer is way too busy ATM to trace any problems because he reckons it's not his fault. Has he tried pulling the fuse from the sound system to prove that it's that that's causing the drain? Or connect a multimeter in ammeter mode in series (not parallel like a voltmeter!) with the battery, and pull fuses to identify when the drain stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraLEDrears Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Yes Stevie the amps were removed at one point to gain access to the fuel pump and still happened. The guy from the alarm place confirmed that there was a drain somewhere but he didn't have time to sort it out apparently. I would've kicked off but my mates a bit soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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