THOR Racing Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Hi guys, I've been having problems with my uneven tyre ware for some time and been trying to get someone to correct the settings of the geometry. Easy you might think. But... my camber bolts have seized. Or so stiff three people hanging off them and they wouldn't budge. But.... Something odd has happened..... I have a -2 camber on the passenger side and +1 on the drivers side. This suggests to the layman (like me) that the whole car has been pushed over to one side. I was wondering if the problem has been a loose or misaligned chassis? If where the suspension bolts to the chassis it has taken a knock or become loose I would hazzard a guess that the wheels stay where they are and the metal work moves between them and effectively pushes one over one way and the other in the opposite direction. I could be wrong and it's just needs the camber setting properly but I don't want to go adjusting camber if it's the chassis alignment that is out. The car has been lowered a long time ago and I did ask for the geometry to be set up at that time. I would have thought that both wheels would have a more negative camber not one positive and one negative if it was just that they hadn't done the job right? I also don't remember hitting anthing hard enough to shift the chassis mounts etc. The alloy wheels would be knackered with this force I guess. But kerbing has happened with the amount of miles I do (unfortunately) so a small bump might shift a loose mounting bolt or something. Am I talking crap? Can I just reset the camber and tracking and leave it at that? Regards Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Front, back or both? I assume the floor the car was on when measured was perfectly flat and horizontal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted April 17, 2003 Author Share Posted April 17, 2003 Sorry. Should have said. It's the FRONT camber that is out. I also hope the ground was level. It was a general tyre garage that does this kind of adjustment everyday. Regards Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cargill Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Hi Pete, you aren't (haven't) suffered from the loose front subframe bolts have you? Search for something like "I don't creak anymore". I wouldn't have thought that it could cause that much camber offset though, mine was creaking badly and it looked like there had been less than 1mm movement on the subframe. Just a thought!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Tired bushes will deflect enough to gain / lose 1 degree. Very much doubt it's a chassis problem. People who talk in minutes of a degree on cars with rubber in the suspension are deluding themselves, if you set to within 1/2 degree and it stays that way after driving down a bumpy lane consider the job OK. Freeing seized adjusters in rubber bushes is a nightmare as if the bolts are truly seized the torque to undo them will tear the rubber, and heat will also knacker the bush. Leaving loose and soaking in WD40 may free themif you drive it like that for while. Expect odd handling when / if they do free. Wash off the WD with brake cleaner if you intend tore use the bushes to stop perishing. Caveat, drive with through bolts loose at your own risk, on a private track, blah blah :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Pete - the thing about the level ground is that 1 degree of slope will move the camber 1 degree. If you haven't got a camber gauge then you are at the mercy of the garage. If the cambers are as you stated then it sounds to me like it may be a loose cross-member problem. I'm assuming that the inner bottom mounts are on the cross member - CW will know more about this than me. My car runs -2deg on both sides although I have to agree with Chris that unless it's rose-jointed it will vary every time you measure it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roboldham Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Pete - doesn't that place opposite Leon's do proper laser alignment? I think I may be up there myself soon cos I have a camber prob methinks. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 You don't need clever kit to check cambers Rob, just a camber gauge. If you're in Kent, drop me a line, bring the car over and I'll dig the gauge out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 Thanks guys. Freeing seized adjusters in rubber bushes is a nightmare as if the bolts are truly seized the torque to undo them will tear the rubber, and heat will also knacker the bush. So what's my options? Should I get someone to take a good look. Possibly worse case cut the old camber adjusters off and replace with new? What about bushes? Can all this be done at the same time? What sort of cost am I looking at? I'm a big dunce when it comes to suspension and mechanics. I cannot drive it much longer as it is. It's driving me mad. Plus costing fortune in tyres. Regards Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 If someone just tried to PM me I've emptied my inbox out now. Try it again. [email protected] Regards Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 So what's my options? Should I get someone to take a good look. Possibly worse case cut the old camber adjusters off and replace with new? What about bushes? Can all this be done at the same time? I hear others have used the Whiteline bush set? What sort of cost am I looking at? I'm a big dunce when it comes to suspension and mechanics. I cannot drive it much longer as it is. It's driving me mad. Plus costing fortune in tyres. Going to have to bite the bullet and let it go for a day to get it checked over. Regards Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Should I get someone to take a good look. Possibly worse case cut the old camber adjusters off and replace with new?Yes What about bushes? Can all this be done at the same time? I hear others have used the Whiteline bush set?If it's all got to come out, you may as well overhaul the bushes etc. Don't know the Whiteline bushes at all. What sort of cost am I looking at? This one I can't answer - sorry. The parts don't sound like expensive ones. Sorry for a vague answer, but as nobody else seems to come up with a definitive I've-done-this type answer, I hope this is of help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Pete, I have a problem as well with my camber, well I thought it was gone as I paid a garage £160 to fix, turns out the other day while getting my tracking checked, front right camber is on a + (I think, top of wheel would be in, bottom of wheel wold be out. Thing it they cant adjust the camber anymore to get it correct, although looking at the bushes on the right side, they seemed squashed more than the left, which has correct camber but its adjusted to its max. Kepp it posted here where you go and what you do/find out, as Im in a boat next to ya...... John, would your gauge thingy be of any use with my problem ??? By the way, phoned the garage up to compain, was told I had to write a letter and give a copy of my camber test sheet so they can compare with there test sheet done on the day when the work was done, or supposedly done. Dont mean to steal this, but if they dispute the time delay, as they done the work about Oct/Nov, and I have only just noticed it now as I checked my tracking, after all if they actually done the work, I wouldnt need to check it for 6 months or so, is there anything I can do/say to make sure they own up for this.........I FECKING HATE CRAP GARAGES, why do they rip us off like this, I mean £160. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Ashley top of wheel would be in, bottom of wheel would be out This is negative camber and a Supra should be set like this. The exact camber setting depends on a few variables, and as Chris Wilson says will vary a bit on road cars anyway. Measuring camber is not rocket-science and a camber guage is just a glorified spirit level. You can buy a camber gauge (the Pace one) from Demon Tweeks for about £75 + VAT and measure your own. Short of accident damage, worn/lose suspension, or heavy kerbing, camber doesn't change. I have my car set at about -2 degrees all round. This is probably not perfect for tyre wear, but it does work well on fast corners. I've done track days with it and taken tyre temperatures and they confirm the camber is fine. If I were starting from scratch with standards suspension and tyres, I would set at -1.5 front and -1 rear and go from there. I imagine there are factory settings knocking about in this board, but don't go looking for more than half a degree here or there. If you're coming my way, let me know and I'll have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 John, The problem I have is finding someone that will actually fault find in this area, all the other garages say "yeah you got a problem there", I ask them if they know what it is and all I keep getting is excuses or blank faces. Im going to request my money back from the garage, and guess its another trip to Leons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I had the same problem. Sorted it with Iverson Tyres in Chiswick. They are really good and cheap! Took them an hour with lasers. I went through a set of front tyres in 3 months from new because I was so badly out. They sorted it and now everything smmes cool. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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