New supra gossip

[mwilkinson]

I have low expectations for the New Supra , where's the air management of the FT1 , stunning Wing mirrors, rear active spoiler with twin Aluminum pneumatic Struts!

 

As Toyota is not considered a premium brand in comparison to BMW , they will be out stage by the Z5 ; Lexus will be the comparison model

 

I can see it looking like the Hyundai Coupe , performance wise , 400hp is mediocre in today's market for a flag ship performance car ; based on today's engineering , European engines/ drive train is rarely over engineered

 

If they do have a 4wd model , it has to compete against the GTR

 

Agreed. 400 bhp just won't cut it and four wheel drive in some fashion is a must.

 

I'm concerned the mkv will be so rubbish it will damage the iconic status of the mkiv Supra, which went out on such a high.

[Bobbeh]

If the new Supra is anything less then a competitor to the GTR it will be a fail in my opinion.

 

It needs to punch above its weight like the mkiv Supra did.

 

It will be so hard to produce such an iconic car again. I think it will be the definition of mediocrity.

 

I don't think Toyota know how to build a sports car these days. The GT86 showed just how out of touch they are.

 

 

They know how to build a sports car, the GT86 is one! The Supra never was a 'sports' car by definition, its a GT and always has been.

 

It has to compete with the GTR or be a lot cheaper. I cant see it not having a Hybrid drive train.. it'll be the pinnacle of the brand (but for Lexus) and their race tech is all about the technology and hybrid in particular, so to not use it would be a bizarre move.

 

I can see two models like with the old Supra... a smaller engined version for the NA equivalent, but using like a 2.0 Turbo perhaps for emissions reasons, and then the bigger engined Hybrid model as hinted at.

[Noz]

Agreed. 400 bhp just won't cut it and four wheel drive in some fashion is a must.

 

I'm concerned the mkv will be so rubbish it will damage the iconic status of the mkiv Supra, which went out on such a high.

 

Good point, but then the prices of R33 GTR's compared to R34's hasn't really been impacted.

 

My previous worry was any upgrade would de-value the previous model, regardless of it being better or worst. Initially a newer model might damage it. But the R34 has sustained what I would say is an extremely impressive value compared to it's predecessor.

[j_jza80]

stunning Wing mirrors,

 

Concept car wing mirrors NEVER make it to production

 

performance wise , 400hp is mediocre in today's market for a flag ship performance car ; based on today's engineering , European engines/ drive train is rarely over engineered

 

If they do have a 4wd model , it has to compete against the GTR

 

My mum has a Volvo XC90 T8, one of the new hybrid models. It weighs 3 tons, and is a big car. It has a 2.0 petrol engine, and therefore it should be slow, and as thirsty as hell. But in addition to a turbo and a supercharger (twincharging FTW ), it has electric motors on the rear wheels, and makes circa 400hp & 470lb/ft when all combined. It can do 0-60 in 5.6 seconds, and 30 miles on a full charge. If a 3 ton 4x4 can do that, imagine what a well designed sports GT could do

[Scooter]

The ISF/RCF 5L v8, with Hybrid to give "x" BHP more through a awd drivetrain?

 

Or twin turbo the V8!?

[Bobbeh]

My mum has a Volvo XC90 T8, one of the new hybrid models. It weighs 3 tons, and is a big car. It has a 2.0 petrol engine, and therefore it should be slow, and as thirsty as hell. But in addition to a turbo and a supercharger (twincharging FTW ), it has electric motors on the rear wheels, and makes circa 400hp & 470lb/ft when all combined. It can do 0-60 in 5.6 seconds, and 30 miles on a full charge. If a 3 ton 4x4 can do that, imagine what a well designed sports GT could do

 

Agreed, a lightweight car with 4WD, instant torque through electric power would be pretty quick. Just look at the Teslas, they're rapid from a standing start.

[ellis]

Just bought the mag for a read - so for those that haven't, here's a few snippets from the text:

 

The new Supra is set to hit UK showrooms during the second half of 2018. It will be offered with the choice of either a traditional petrol or petrol-electric hybrid drivetrain. The hybrid version is claimed to draw on technology and processes developed for Toyota's most recent TS050 LMP1 Le Mans race car.

 

The Supra is planned to be sold exclusively as a fixed roof coupé.

 

The starting point for the new sports car pairing (with the BMW Z5) is a freshly developed platform engineered by BMW. It derives chassis components and engineering solutions from the current 3 series and its various derivatives, including the rear axle and five-link rear suspension from the normal M3/M4.

 

As stipulated from the start of the project, the new platform has been engineered to support both rear-wheel drive and - crucial to plans to provide both variants with petrol-electric hybrid power - four-wheel drive.

 

The Toyota's development is being overseen by Tetsuya Tada, the man responsible for the Toyota GT86 and Subaru BRZ joint venture.

 

Kicking off the line-up is a 2.0 litre turbocharged unit expected to offer 242bhp. A more highly tuned variant with close to 300bhp is also under development. Flagship model will have a newly developed 3.5 litre V6 petrol unit delivering more than 400bhp.

[j_jza80]

Or save a load of development money and use the V10 from the LFA

[j_jza80]

Flagship model will have a newly developed 3.5 litre V6 petrol unit delivering more than 400bhp.

 

I'm hoping that, using the precedent of the engine arrangements in the BRZ / GT86, that any potential Supra uses a developed version of a BMW straight 6. It's almost inconceivable that BMW would use a V6 engine, and I can't imagine it is too easy to develop a reasonably compact sports platform that can use either a V6 or inline 6. The only cars I'm aware of that have ever done this are some 90's era Mercs, and they were all big cars.

[ellis]

V6 is being developed for the Supra (allegedly), not the BMW

[mwilkinson]

Just bought the mag for a read - so for those that haven't, here's a few snippets from the text:

 

The new Supra is set to hit UK showrooms during the second half of 2018. It will be offered with the choice of either a traditional petrol or petrol-electric hybrid drivetrain. The hybrid version is claimed to draw on technology and processes developed for Toyota's most recent TS050 LMP1 Le Mans race car.

 

The Supra is planned to be sold exclusively as a fixed roof coupé.

 

The starting point for the new sports car pairing (with the BMW Z5) is a freshly developed platform engineered by BMW. It derives chassis components and engineering solutions from the current 3 series and its various derivatives, including the rear axle and five-link rear suspension from the normal M3/M4.

 

As stipulated from the start of the project, the new platform has been engineered to support both rear-wheel drive and - crucial to plans to provide both variants with petrol-electric hybrid power - four-wheel drive.

 

The Toyota's development is being overseen by Tetsuya Tada, the man responsible for the Toyota GT86 and Subaru BRZ joint venture.

 

Kicking off the line-up is a 2.0 litre turbocharged unit expected to offer 242bhp. A more highly tuned variant with close to 300bhp is also under development. Flagship model will have a newly developed 3.5 litre V6 petrol unit delivering more than 400bhp.

 

The fact they are considering so many engine variants concerns me too. It devalues the model IMHO.

 

They should have two models like before, a more sedate version and the all out power version.

 

Hybrid doesn't concern me so long as it's effective. If the output will be 400 bhp plus hybrid power it may be OK.

 

Unfortunately it's looking like the car may well end up being underpowered, outperformed and probably expensive, especially if a hybrid power train is involved.

 

Sorry to be so negative, but I've yet to see anything that excites me. The concept FT1 was nice, but I don't see much of that in the spy car pictures. I would love to think it was the Z5, but the roof shape matched the FT1 too closely to be the BMW. If that is the new Supra it's overall shape looks a bit generic.

[j_jza80]

I doubt there'll be more than a couple of engine options, they won't sell enough of them to justify it.

 

And even if the headline figures don't look that impressive, I wouldn't write Toyota off just yet people said the same about the LFA, and that became way more than the sum of its numbers.

[Noz]

I hope they take into account the tuning scene. Because the v160 and the 2JZ bottom ends definitely are going to be hard to keep up with.

[JasonR24]

It really does have to compete directly with the GTR to have any chance of success

[rider]

The Toyota GB guys did say the MkV will be welcomed by the MkIV crowd and that we will be pleasantly surprised by the concept and power. They seemed upbeat on it but maybe when you are top lining at a 2l GT86 you can get easily excited?

[Kendo11]

Just bought the mag for a read - so for those that haven't, here's a few snippets from the text:

 

The new Supra is set to hit UK showrooms during the second half of 2018. It will be offered with the choice of either a traditional petrol or petrol-electric hybrid drivetrain. The hybrid version is claimed to draw on technology and processes developed for Toyota's most recent TS050 LMP1 Le Mans race car.

 

The Supra is planned to be sold exclusively as a fixed roof coupé.

 

The starting point for the new sports car pairing (with the BMW Z5) is a freshly developed platform engineered by BMW. It derives chassis components and engineering solutions from the current 3 series and its various derivatives, including the rear axle and five-link rear suspension from the normal M3/M4.

 

As stipulated from the start of the project, the new platform has been engineered to support both rear-wheel drive and - crucial to plans to provide both variants with petrol-electric hybrid power - four-wheel drive.

 

The Toyota's development is being overseen by Tetsuya Tada, the man responsible for the Toyota GT86 and Subaru BRZ joint venture.

 

Kicking off the line-up is a 2.0 litre turbocharged unit expected to offer 242bhp. A more highly tuned variant with close to 300bhp is also under development. Flagship model will have a newly developed 3.5 litre V6 petrol unit delivering more than 400bhp.

 

Thanks for sharing mate.

 

I think for the Supra to maintain the status it has at the moment it really needs to be tunable, something akin to the current 'freak of nature' 2jz will go down well.

 

Said it before though - will believe it when I see it.

[ellis]

Said it before though - will believe it when I see it.

 

You and me both mate!

[j_jza80]

Some more pics here with some of the camo removed. Looking more like the ft1.

 

http://www.superstreetonline.com/features/news/spied-toyota-supra-mule-now-wears-ft-1-styling-cues/?sm_id=social_aumosuperstreetonlinesshub_default_20161128_68301636&adbid=10155568166842907&adbpl=fb&adbpr=23923017906

[SPG]

Well I can see more of the FT-1 in these latest pics, quite a bit of covering up happening under the camouflage from what I can see.

 

Who else is seriously considering buying one if the end product is what we hope it will be?

[j_jza80]

IMO that's definitely a Toyota, the styling just isnt anything like BMW. I'd wait for the mechanical specs before getting excited, I just hope they're not going down the get route with a dull turbo v6.

[JasonR24]

I hope this isn't the new supra. It looks absolutely terrible. They should just go wth the ft1 concept with a few tiny tweeks, that looked decent.

[mwilkinson]

If that's the new Supra you won't see me buying one any time soon.

 

Sharing a platform with the Z5 seems to have been a bad idea. It all looks too compressed and narrow.

 

The nose won't look right. In the concept the F1 inspired nose was sleek and low. On this it's like a beak perched on top of the car.

 

The stance of the car is all wrong.

[j_jza80]

If you look closely, you can see it's still got rivetted on camo panels on the nose and rear wings, so I'd expect most of that 'nose' to disappear.

[mwilkinson]

If you look closely, you can see it's still got rivetted on camo panels on the nose and rear wings, so I'd expect most of that 'nose' to disappear.

 

I had noticed that. Has panels on rear arches, doors and front wings / bonnet. The rear hatch glass is also significantly covered.

 

Just not sure the style can be saved. The platform is too small. If you look at the FT1 concept the car was quite large , low and sleek. This looks too squashed.

 

The issue for me is that instead of designing the car from the ground up, they have had to work within the parameters of the Z5 chassis design. The mkiv Supra was a GT cruiser, not a 2 seat sports car (I know that for all intent and purposes it is but it does have rear seats however useless). The FT1 mirrored more of the iconic Supra GT look to me. The Z5 / FT1 concept are just too far apart to work in any real sense.

 

Don't get me wrong, they may take on board comments now and do something amazing, but I doubt it. The shared platform is the killer here. They would have been better working on a shared platform with one of the larger M cars.

Edited November 29, 2016 by mwilkinson (see edit history)

[Mike2JZ]

I had noticed that. Has panels on rear arches, doors and front wings / bonnet. The rear hatch glass is also significantly covered.

 

Just not sure the style can be saved. The platform is too small. If you look at the FT1 concept the car was quite large , low and sleek. This looks too squashed.

 

The issue for me is that instead of designing the car from the ground up, they have had to work within the parameters of the Z5 chassis design. The mkiv Supra was a GT cruiser, not a 2 seat sports car (I know that for all intent and purposes it is but it does have rear seats however useless). The FT1 mirrored more of the iconic Supra GT look to me. The Z5 / FT1 concept are just too far apart to work in any real sense.

 

Don't get me wrong, they may take on board comments now and do something amazing, but I doubt it. The shared platform is the killer here. They would have been better working on a shared platform with one of the larger M cars.

 

What are you on about??

 

You are jumping to conclusions without seeing the final product.