Article 50 can't be triggered before a parliamentary vote??

[j_jza80]

Wow. To be fair, we were overdue one of you.

[Wonga Spar]

Wow. To be fair, we were overdue one of you.

 

I'm sorry. I hate my job, ran out of cigarettes and got drunk, it's not been my night. Picking political fights on a car forum is dumber than dumb.

[Bobbeh]

Picking political fights on a car forum is dumber than dumb.

 

Watching question time is almost as funny This place is starting to remind me of the Daily Mail forums lol

[Chris Wilson]

I'm sorry. I hate my job, ran out of cigarettes and got drunk, it's not been my night. Picking political fights on a car forum is dumber than dumb.

 

I'll just let this make my point for me, tired, probably a little too much ale, so a link does it for me:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/generation-y-unhappy_b_3930620.html

 

[h=1]Why Generation Y Yuppies Are Unhappy[/h]

[Hammer]

God, I can’t believe some of you. What has this great country come to? I am doing ok. Was before Euro. Was during Euro, and will be after Euro involvement, yes, I’m an old git, but life was just as tough when we left school – look it up, properly. You just need to do what is needed to make your living.

(No, they don’t ‘owe us a living’, although I love that record and era- again, look it up)

I’m glad we are out, no I did not vote, (despite being and old git, I don’t want to wreak the lives of our young, go figure?) never will, all a bunch of £ chasing unspeakable types if you ask me who will never care about the working man.

Whatever happens, I see a lot of opportunities for me and all others who want to try hard. Remember, I’m an old git, (not a young and go get it type – although I was once) and can’t wait for the challenge. (Oh, scary, I might have to think for myself and do a real days work.)

I have always worked hard, always will, not afraid of that. Working hard will always see me ‘right, not a problem. I bought my first house at 19 and no, it wasn’t any easier back then and no one helped me, we just never thought we had the right to go out like our elders were doing and I never, ever went on holiday nor had a decent car etc., clapped out mk1 1100 escort! That’s the choices you make.

Just to put my thoughts into today’s perspective, my son bought his house £250.000 with his girlfriend, two years ago (he was 24 she was 23) without any help, because they wanted it and saved. This all happens because they have a life plan. To be honest, her dad and I wish we could of helped them but bottom line is they said no, they were ok and could manage it all themselves.

So make all the excuses you like but I managed it (32 years ago) and my son has managed it (2 years ago). No one helped us; we just got on with it and managed our money correctly.

Just in case you are wondering, we were left no money and did not marry into money. I’m a bricklayer and he is a car mechanic, not silver spoon boys. We are just hard working guys who don’t expect a hand out. I have worked hard to get a degree in teaching, whilst working full time, teach and run a property maintenance & development company and he is looking to go forward with his trade.

It took me a long time to get a Supra, my dream car. It’s a matter of priorities in YOUR life, whatever they might be. Remember, it’s all your choice. Tough maybe, but life is and to be controversial in today’s world, so it should be.

‘Do they owe us a living? ‘Course they do, ‘course they do’. No they don’t. (Look it up).

[Kendo11]

I'm sorry. I hate my job, ran out of cigarettes and got drunk, it's not been my night. Picking political fights on a car forum is dumber than dumb.

 

It is on this forum...

[Bobbeh]

I'll just let this make my point for me, tired, probably a little too much ale, so a link does it for me:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/generation-y-unhappy_b_3930620.html

 

[h=1]Why Generation Y Yuppies Are Unhappy[/h]

 

Chris I see the point you are trying to make, but that is sweeping generalisation and economic and job circumstances have changed so much in recent times. Everyone needs to work hard and buckle down to get what they want out of life but to point the finger at peoples complaints being down to their expectations is a bit unfair. Steep house price rises and dormant wage rises is a perfect example and that's not down to people not working hard enough. Fairness in society is getting less and more people are getting edged out.

 

Plus, you can hardly blame some of the MTV generation too much when you see the crap they're fed on TV and in newspapers, and now social media about other peoples lifestyles and it gets them wanting/expecting! Of course there are plenty of lazy ones too but there has been in every generation.

 

Nowt wrong with too much ale!

[Wez]

warning, some naughty words included

 

[Bobbeh]

Hehe, wouldn't like to be staying in the room next to this guy - damn Premier Inn walls are so thin

[Scooter]

I'll just let this make my point for me, tired, probably a little too much ale, so a link does it for me:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/generation-y-unhappy_b_3930620.html

 

[h=1]Why Generation Y Yuppies Are Unhappy[/h]

 

As bobbeh indicated there are a lot of true'isms in this link, and you can point to the lack of competitive edge in schools and being told they are special! etc but I do feel for some now and I personally think the university fees structure isn't great and may hurt us in the future. It's seems at some point someone deemed the government support of higher education should be removed in favour of some other public service or to prevent an increase in tax to the general populace.

 

I didn't see Wonga Spar's ranting but there is an anti Uni sentiment in the responses I now can see, however I'm sure that there are many graduates on here who learnt at a time when they didn't come away saddled with +£30K of debt. University can be the only way to go for some niche careers, especially the ones of scientific discovery that can dramatically alter our lives going forward. There is a balance between forcing a student to think seriously about their choices going forward (ie not just doing it because it is free) and completely putting them off from ever going.

 

It's a shame the system wasn't restricted so that only the top percentile of people could go to University (like the days of (very!)old), it was the vast increase in numbers over the years that made the support of it all unsustainable, when the harsh "no you're not good enough" for some at 18 would have been better, I also believe the subsidised support of those that do make the grade benefits all.

 

We have ended up with some 'could make a difference' candidates never going, the wealthy kids going regardless but loads of those 18 year olds who ultimately won't benefit financially from the uni process leaving being saddle with debt, possibly unable to find a job that utilises their knowledge gained (or if it does doesn't pay any more than a job they could do without a degree) and essentially in the place they were if told at 18 they couldn't go to Uni.

 

Then if they knuckle down, even with good jobs you have debt to clear before deposits are raised for houses, then the children get delayed to later in life I'm not sure it's so good for society, we'll see.

[Annabella]

Another vote leave here, homeowner, business owner, supra owner

Alcohol and itchy keyboard fingers aren't a good idea. Yep student loan malarky isn't a good system, it just promotes the wealthy only to gain degrees. Unless you want to start adult life with a large debt, that is now included in mortgage applications, (they said it wouldn't). Thing is didn't students used to have to get a bar job and cafe job whilst being at Uni? Or is that beyond them these days. That would reduce the loans needed.........

[j_jza80]

Like you say, the issue is that university has become the rule, not the exception.

 

A friend of mine got a 2:1 geography degree. She spent the next year working in a cafe, and has just landed a trainee office position at a local council in the South of the country. I'd imagine it is paying something like £17k a year. A few years ago, a school leaver with maybe an a level or two would have easily gotten this job.

 

Sales positions at estate agents have now become graduate roles, again paying £17k ish basic. Recruitment agents, again, another low pay graduate role.

 

The labour market is completely saturated with graduates, and the only effect it has had is to push wages downward, and debts upward.

[Bobbeh]

Bar work isn't going to cover £9k annually in tuition fees and £K's in accommodation on top... no doubt many students will have to find some kind of work to help offset the costs unless they're coming from a privileged background. I was fortunate to finish my degree just before they introduced tuition fees thank goodness.

[Bobbeh]

Like you say, the issue is that university has become the rule, not the exception.

 

A friend of mine got a 2:1 geography degree. She spent the next year working in a cafe, and has just landed a trainee office position at a local council in the South of the country. I'd imagine it is paying something like £17k a year. A few years ago, a school leaver with maybe an a level or two would have easily gotten this job.

 

Sales positions at estate agents have now become graduate roles, again paying £17k ish basic. Recruitment agents, again, another low pay graduate role.

 

The labour market is completely saturated with graduates, and the only effect it has had is to push wages downward, and debts upward.

 

Thing is, many blue chip companies will not employ people without a good degree.... and people were encouraged to get degree's to show international business that we are a good place to invest. Sadly many of the degrees that people have done are crap and pointless.

 

I had a friend who got a masters and couldnt get a job for a while, most places telling him they didnt want to employ him as he was over qualified, ended up doing low paid work for NHS direct and after a year or two of 'work experience' got onto the ladder of decent work.. now he's doing really well and getting on with his life... albeit after a slow start. I dont think what he's doing/earning now would be the same if he hadn't spent the time at Uni.

[Bobbeh]

Going back to original topic, a Tory pro Brexit MP resigned today at how the Government are handling all this... as its undemocratic.

[j_jza80]

Perhaps instead of tuition fees, there should be a graduate tax, as a percentage of wages over a certain amount (national average wage?) At least that way those who benefit financially from a university education are those that pay for it, without saddling people with debts.

 

It would seem unfair to expect non graduates on low wages to be funding higher education for those who will go on to earn much higher salaries, except in sectors deemed of strategic importance (sciences, medical, engineering etc).

 

It would also be desirable for the government to offer an affordable alternative for those whose circumstances prevent them from full time education (parents etc). Along the lines of a low cost open university alternative.

[Bobbeh]

Students who take out loan have to pay them back at with interest incremental rates based on earnings.. I think if they were taxed on top then this is going to put people off even more. Not all students go on to jobs that pay big bucks either, so that wouldn't work.

 

Remember, if people end up earning more because of the fact they went to Uni... they get TAXED for it anyway in income tax.

[Wonga Spar]

Another vote leave here, homeowner, business owner, supra owner

Alcohol and itchy keyboard fingers aren't a good idea. Yep student loan malarky isn't a good system, it just promotes the wealthy only to gain degrees. Unless you want to start adult life with a large debt, that is now included in mortgage applications, (they said it wouldn't). Thing is didn't students used to have to get a bar job and cafe job whilst being at Uni? Or is that beyond them these days. That would reduce the loans needed.........

 

Sorry but you're so far off the mark I can't even dignify it. 3 years ago it cost £3,000 a year in tuition fees, it's now £9,000. Of course we got jobs, those who didn't have wealthy backgrounds anyway, that was a whole different can of worms.

 

Especially in Cornwall, having 2,000 students in your area wanting the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs, I'd love to see how you guys responded to that!

[Annabella]

Oh come on. You really want to do this? Every term my grant provided me £1,500, this was 3 months worth of money. Rent was £420 a month. I worked at KFC and dominoes in second and third year just to cover basic living. So come off it mate.

 

Sorry but you're so far off the mark I can't even dignify it. 3 years ago it cost £3,000 a year in tuition fees, it's now £9,000. Having some ridiculous part time job frying chicken doesn't change that, or even dent it.

 

If you re-read what I wrote, I guess they don't teach this, I was sympathising with the costs, yes getting work, like you did, reduces the debt, if it didn't you spent it all. Whats wrong with frying chicken? I used to work in a cafe washing up whilst a student.

[Bobbeh]

I went to Uni with a guy who basically blew his £3.5k annual grant on junk.. some people cant be helped. Same with the benefits system.. there are always those taking advantage making those who need it suffer.

[Wonga Spar]

If you re-read what I wrote, I guess they don't teach this, I was sympathising with the costs, yes getting work, like you did, reduces the debt, if it didn't you spent it all. Whats wrong with frying chicken? I used to work in a cafe washing up whilst a student.

 

This isn't really aimed at you Annabelle, your comment about work being "beneath them now" just rubbed me up wrong as about 6 other people have played that same stupid "back in my day we worked hard" card.

[Paul]

Uni doesn't teach you common sense, how to mix with clients and colleagues, working under pressure.....etc., many I've worked with are lost without wikipedia or google as this is the amount of their 'experience'.

A degree is the very start of a career, and the calibre of grads I've worked with over the years has honestly been disappointing.

[Kendo11]

I think the uni/degree discussion is a separate one to be honest, the worthiness of having a degree has been in question for years, separate to brexit.

 

The fees are such now that I wouldn't be able to go to uni, I'm glad I did when I did but it has little revelance to the job I do now.

 

I know receptionists, shop assistants, administration workers and so on who are working in roles a world away from their degree.

 

I interviewed several staff for a part time admin position about 10 months ago and 75% of them had degrees. For a part time admin position!

 

Going back to original topic, a Tory pro Brexit MP resigned today at how the Government are handling all this... as its undemocratic.

 

My local MP.

 

A large bag of excrement to be honest and I'm glad he's gone. Works 1700 hours a year as a barrister earning around £750,000 and yet still claimed expenses and voted to cut ESA for the disadvantaged in this area. Then when people complained he said it was because of envy...

 

Very sorry to hear that mate. What industry were you in?

 

Missed that sorry. I work in part of a large PLC supplying building materials. Redundancies across our group and many of the other more well known ones. Looking at around 2000 redundancies by the end of the year all in all across the industry.

[Scooter]

Perhaps instead of tuition fees, there should be a graduate tax, as a percentage of wages over a certain amount (national average wage?) At least that way those who benefit financially from a university education are those that pay for it, without saddling people with debts.

 

It would seem unfair to expect non graduates on low wages to be funding higher education for those who will go on to earn much higher salaries, except in sectors deemed of strategic importance (sciences, medical, engineering etc).

 

It would also be desirable for the government to offer an affordable alternative for those whose circumstances prevent them from full time education (parents etc). Along the lines of a low cost open university alternative.

 

IMO the country as a whole benefits from some of the university educated people. I'm happy paying a part of tax to fund the fire service as I'm sure most are and yet (hopefully) most of us never have cause to see their services. I'd be happy funding university courses if numbers could be restricted and therefore costs kept in some sort of check, when the notion was first put forward it must have seemed right to support education as much as possible (they used to give students grants to help with the costs of living whilst studying - with those and holiday jobs you could keep the debt you left uni with to a minimum).

 

Studying for A levels at 6th form is still free as far as I'm aware but could/should that be fee paying too? Taxes in some respects are never fair, some benefit more from them more than others but that's a fact for or a civilised society as long as we ultimately retain the rewards for hard work and endeavour it generally works out ok.

[Bobbeh]

My local MP.

 

A large bag of excrement to be honest and I'm glad he's gone. Works 1700 hours a year as a barrister earning around £750,000 and yet still claimed expenses and voted to cut ESA for the disadvantaged in this area. Then when people complained he said it was because of envy...

 

We're all in it together remember!