JasonR24 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I wouldn't call it a rise of the far right, more of a rejection of career politicians and their solution to every problem; 'more of the same'. Look at Sanders, Corbyn etc, and left Wing populist groups rising in various parts of Europe. People are also becoming utterly sick of the regressive celebrity twitterati. The 'politics' (virtue signalling) of people like Bob Geldof, Russell Brand, Eddie Izzard, Lilly Allen etc is being utterly rejected. Agreed. Only the extreme liberals call it the far right because they're not getting their own way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-president-us-election-result-front-national-marine-le-pen-jean-marie-far-right-world-a7406426.html [h=1]Marine Le Pen's Front National issues chilling warning over Donald Trump win: 'Their world is collapsing. Ours is being built'[/h] 'Today the United States, tomorrow France!' writes vice president Florian Philippot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 It's a victory that's been won on the rise of bigotry, sexism, xenophobia, and lies, and people applaud that as if it's a good thing. That's a quite unfair. Specifically with the xenophobic comment, it appears that your view is that of the celebrity virtue signallers, in that immigration is a binary issue; you're either in favour of completely open immigration, or you're racist. This couldn't be further from the truth. People want a sustainable population, and they don't like the scale and the speed and scale of the change we've we've been experiencing. I live in an area that has had very high immigration, and have seen both the pros and the cons. Plenty of remain voters will have had deep concerns about this too, but on balance decided that being in the EU was probably better. I'm not willing to accept the notion that all 17m leave voters are racists, and all 16m remain voters are regressive leftists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 That's a quite unfair. Specifically with the xenophobic comment, it appears that your view is that of the celebrity virtue signallers, in that immigration is a binary issue; you're either in favour of completely open immigration, or you're racist. This couldn't be further from the truth. People want a sustainable population, and they don't like the scale and the speed and scale of the change we've we've been experiencing. I live in an area that has had very high immigration, and have seen both the pros and the cons. Plenty of remain voters will have had deep concerns about this too, but on balance decided that being in the EU was probably better. I'm not willing to accept the notion that all 17m leave voters are racists, and all 16m remain voters are regressive leftists. So Trump has not been xenophobic? Ah I see, you've misread. The remarks about the campaign are about Trump, not Brexit. I was referring to that in my criticism of Corbyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajinder Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 First Brexit and now Trump as the next US president. My faith in God has been restored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Trump has most certainly been xenophobic, as were UKIP during the referendum campaign (the refugee poster particularly was abhorrent) People on the whole voted for them despite these things, not because of them. They chose the lesser evil. Example What's worse; a xenophobic poster of migrants and the accompanying rhetoric, or tens of thousands of migrants dead or in slavery as a result of poor EU policy and rogue European leaders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 See above, either you've misread or I didn't term it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 The sentiment can be applied to both, pretty equally. It seems as if people have been voting for the least worst option, and for opposing globalisation, neoliberalism / ultra capitalism, and mass movement of people, they are labelled racists by the regressive left and their celebrity twitterati. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 The sentiment can be applied to both, pretty equally. It seems as if people have been voting for the least worst option, and for opposing globalisation, neoliberalism / ultra capitalism, and mass movement of people, they are labelled racists by the regressive left and their celebrity twitterati. I wouldn't say the Brexit vote was as overt in it's connotations as much as Trump has been. He, and his supporters, haven't even tried to gloss over or hide it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 But as I was saying, what was the alternative? Trump wasn't elected on the back of xenophobia or racism, he was voted on the back of Hillary Clinton and everything she represents. The proof is that he was the most unpopular candidate in recorded history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 But as I was saying, what was the alternative? Trump wasn't elected on the back of xenophobia or racism, he was voted on the back of Hillary Clinton and everything she represents. The proof is that he was the most unpopular candidate in recorded history. I disagree. I'd say the overriding reasons for his victory in the (key) midwest, and rustbelt states are due to the fact that certain beliefs in those areas are still rife and he's appealed to that. There's too much he's stood up and said, and done, and been caught saying (not just in this campaign but over the past couple of decades) for central voters to have decided he's the least worst option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Agreed. Only the extreme liberals call it the far right because they're not getting their own way Nothing to do with getting ones wishes, and don't label me as an extreme liberal thank you very much. You know nothing about me at all. Just look at the post Chris Wilson put up... thats a prime example and proves my point - but I suppose she's not right wing?! Its the rhetoric being used that is divisive and the fact people voted for it. Attacking minority groups, religions etc.. its what always happens when people have economic issues. I agree with the point about anti establishment vote also.. people wanted change as they did in Brexit... I just don't think the change they hope/voted for is going to happen for them in the way they wanted it... and if it is does I'd be the first to stand up and congratulate! I actually think it was an election Clinton lost more than Trump winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 I disagree. I'd say the overriding reasons for his victory in the (key) midwest, and rustbelt states are due to the fact that certain beliefs in those areas are still rife and he's appealed to that. There's too much he's stood up and said, and done, and been caught saying (not just in this campaign but over the past couple of decades) for central voters to have decided he's the least worst option. /QUOTE] So you're saying that half of the people that voted are racist? I don't buy that for a second. In fact, being left wing, you're supposed to believe in the intrinsic good in People, and to at least give them the benefit of the doubt? Accusing tens of millions of Americans of being racists without any solid proof doesn't sound very tolerant to me. The popularity rating of both candidates supports my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon_Bullet Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Season 2 should be fun hey ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Who said I was left wing or said anything about people being racist? I'm talking about the agenda being spouted which was CLEARLY racist and divisive being voted for (among many other issues of course). I believe the people who voted are clearly of the belief they're voting for good/better etc. Stop looking for things that aren't there for gods sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just look at the post Chris Wilson put up... thats a prime example and proves my point - but I suppose she's not right wing?! Its the rhetoric being used that is divisive and the fact people voted for it. Attacking minority groups, religions etc.. its what always happens when people have economic issues. France is having serious issues as a result if the Socialists 'cultural enrichment'. As well as the publicised tragedies in France over the last few years, Jewish schools in Paris now have to have armed guards on the doors at certain points of the day. Large areas of Paris have become run down, Middle Eastern slums. I've seen this with my own eyes, the change in 15 years has been alarming, so can you really blame the local people for turning to those who offer change? The rise of groups like FN is unfortunate, tragic even, but completely understandable. I agree with the point about anti establishment vote also.. people wanted change as they did in Brexit... I just don't think the change they hope/voted for is going to happen for them in the way they wanted it... and if it is does I'd be the first to stand up and congratulate! What is certain is that the age of voting for the same People, and expecting a different outcome, is firmly over. - - - Updated - - - Who said I was left wing or said anything about people being racist? I'm talking about the agenda being spouted which was CLEARLY racist and divisive being voted for (among many other issues of course). I believe the people who voted are clearly of the belief they're voting for good/better etc. Stop looking for things that aren't there for gods sake. Sorry, it was a reply to Kendo11 post, not yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassbones Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 A lame duck, single term president that will spend the next 4 years making Dubya-esque gaffs and convincing 50% of the US population that they were wrong. Trouble is... 2 terms of Dubya (Republican) = rich get richer, poor get poorer 2 terms of Obama (Democrat) = rich get richer, poor get poorer 1 term of Trump (Batshit crazy reality tv star) = rich get richer, poor get poorer Where does that 50% go to next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Thing is, the Republicans have a 'full house' so to speak, so they will be less of a lame duck than Obama in that respect. How they will choose to use that though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 No worries I agree, France has massive problems.. I just don't think the national front type related parties are those best to resolve it. Just a shame our 'usual' government parties have done so little to help across both sides of the Atlantic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formatzero Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Good news for brickies in America:D Trump says he will make America great again ! when was it great the last time exactly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 So you're saying that half of the people that voted are racist? I don't buy that for a second. In fact, being left wing, you're supposed to believe in the intrinsic good in People, and to at least give them the benefit of the doubt? Accusing tens of millions of Americans of being racists without any solid proof doesn't sound very tolerant to me. The popularity rating of both candidates supports my opinion. Not half no, the percentage split hasn't worked like that. I think it's naive to think that a large proportion of people who've voted for Trump have done so just because they don't like the system, as opposed to his openly and well documented bigoted/sexist/derogatory views. The man has stood up on record and openly shared these views, the proof has come straight from the horses mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 How do you explain him being so unpopular then? Even within the republican party and republican voters? Hardly an endorsement of him or his rhetoric? Don't get me wrong, I fully accept that there will be many racists etc in among his voters, (just as I'm sure there are among the democrats too) but these people would have voted republican anyway, no matter the candidate. it was a message of change, and a rejection of the opposition / status quo which won the day, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Instead of looking negatively at Brexit and the Trump win, try and look less passionately and see if there's anything you can do to make a little earner from these things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Good news for brickies in America:D Trump says he will make America great again ! when was it great the last time exactly ? When Ronald Regan was about apparently - - - Updated - - - Instead of looking negatively at Brexit and the Trump win, try and look less passionately and see if there's anything you can do to make a little earner from these things Hahah, good call! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Instead of looking negatively at Brexit and the Trump win, try and look less passionately and see if there's anything you can do to make a little earner from these things I was going to put £10 on it yesterday @14:1, but chickened out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.