JackyBoi Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Hello everyone! So I'm starting to think a bit more seriously about my engine rebuild that's inevitably in the pipeline (mainly pricing up the parts that are required and the best options to go for) and I need a bit of help in some areas. I'm looking for any advice from anyone with experience regarding good brands to go for, what to avoid, that kind of thing. I've no doubt missed some things from the list so please let me know if I have! I figured this would also be a nice way for anyone with lesser experience who's looking at having an engine rebuild to understand the parts included as well as the price of everything. So here's the list: BLOCK: OEM crank (balanced and polished) CP forged pistons 86.5mm (stock 8.5:1 compression) CP piston ring set Carillo H-beam conrods (or potentially Eagle) Wrist pins (brand? Or keep OEM?) OEM oil pump with modification Clevite con rod bearing set Clevite main bearing set Clevite thrust washer set (or potentially ACL's all round as a step-up) HEAD: HKS 264 VVTi camshafts HKS adjustable cam gear Ferrea dual valve springs and TI retainers Ferrea competition plus valves Ferrea valve guides Ferrea valve seals ARP head stud kit ARP main stud kit ARP con rod bolts OEM compete gasket kit OEM cam seals OEM hydraulic timing belt tensioner Gates race timing belt (I've left out machining, labour etc as this is is purely a parts list) I've put in the brackets the areas I'm unsure about, and obviously if anything on that list doesn't look right/could be upgraded or is overkill for a street setup, then again please let me know. I'm totally open to advice on this, even if you say that I should go for different brands on every part I should also mention this will be a street setup on a 66mm turbo running 800whp, reliability is key with this build! Thank you everyone Edited October 25, 2016 by JackyBoi (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 The size of your pistons will be determined by the condition of your block. Might need to machine the bores out if they've been washed leaving you with 86.5mm, 87mm etc pistons. Best just to go with stock TT compression ratio ones as well. Rings should come with the pistons so no need to worry there. If you're going for 800whp, you might get away with just Eagle rods. Much cheaper and I can't say I've heard of a set fail? Go OEM with oil pump I also think ACL is preferred over Clevite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyBoi Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 The size of your pistons will be determined by the condition of your block. Might need to machine the bores out if they've been washed leaving you with 86.5mm, 87mm etc pistons. Best just to go with stock TT compression ratio ones as well. Rings should come with the pistons so no need to worry there. If you're going for 800whp, you might get away with just Eagle rods. Much cheaper and I can't say I've heard of a set fail? Go OEM with oil pump I also think ACL is preferred over Clevite. That's massively helpful, thank you mate so if the cylinder walls of my block aren't scored etc, then just stick with 86.5mm oversized pistons? Also, how comes it's best to stick with stock compression? As for wrist pins, what are your thoughts? OEM or are they usually supplied with con rods? Again thank you for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike2JZ Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 The size of your pistons will be determined by the condition of your block. Might need to machine the bores out if they've been washed leaving you with 86.5mm, 87mm etc pistons. Best just to go with stock TT compression ratio ones as well. Rings should come with the pistons so no need to worry there. If you're going for 800whp, you might get away with just Eagle rods. Much cheaper and I can't say I've heard of a set fail? Go OEM with oil pump I also think ACL is preferred over Clevite. I would disagree with the oil pump suggestion. By all means go oem on it, but companies like powerhouse supply their own pumps that have ported drain valves which in theory help reduce the pressure put on the front crank seal, especially on high horsepower applications. If you are handy with a drill then you can do this yourself though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Budz86 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 One thing I've found on my setup is the 272 cams are a bit big for a fast spooling street car imo. I have a 6466 and HKS 272s on both sides and have been toying with the idea of going to 264s or a 264/272 intake and exhaust. I find full boost on pump isn't until 5k odd, but ethanol does bring that down. Last thing I will do before making the decision is playing with the cam timing and a few map tweaks, but the car is on hold for the moment while I sort other stuff out. Don't get me wrong, the 272s are great for making power and it pulls hard to the 8k limit, but I can't help thinking the first 4k is wasted so to speak! Lol. I'm sure plenty out there have had good results on 272s, Luc being one and also Steve, but he's running a different setup. I'd be happy to sacrifice a little bit of power to help spool as my 800whp is only really useful on a motorway! Back road driving is best done around 650 hp and wringing it's neck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Bullitt Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) 256/256 or 264/264 would be your best bet for cams. If you are feeling brave go with a staggered set up of 256 (IN) / 264 (EX) although this does drop voumetric efficiency because the 256 (IN) is retarding while 264 (EX) is still running. The result from this will be more scavenging which is expunging, yet benefits as the added gasses are forced into the turbine for spool. Someone please correct me if I am wrong with advice on the staggered set-up. E2A A little light reading for you http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?404377-Hks-264-264-272-264-And-272-272-Testing-by-SP-ENGINEERING http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?45313-Cam-duration-new-idea-thinking&highlight=stagger http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?85172-272in-264ex-vs-256in-264ex-cam-setup-test-results Edited October 25, 2016 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parry_10 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 One thing I've found on my setup is the 272 cams are a bit big for a fast spooling street car imo. I have a 6466 and HKS 272s on both sides and have been toying with the idea of going to 264s or a 264/272 intake and exhaust. I find full boost on pump isn't until 5k odd, but ethanol does bring that down. Last thing I will do before making the decision is playing with the cam timing and a few map tweaks, but the car is on hold for the moment while I sort other stuff out. Don't get me wrong, the 272s are great for making power and it pulls hard to the 8k limit, but I can't help thinking the first 4k is wasted so to speak! Lol. I'm sure plenty out there have had good results on 272s, Luc being one and also Steve, but he's running a different setup. I'd be happy to sacrifice a little bit of power to help spool as my 800whp is only really useful on a motorway! Back road driving is best done around 650 hp and wringing it's neck! 5k on a 6466 Jesus sounds awful lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parry_10 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Considering the luck you have had with this car and the poor workmanship already in places, tell Lee at SRD what you want hand over the cash let him build it and never have an issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraleeturbo Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Considering the luck you have had with this car and the poor workmanship already in places, tell Lee at SRD what you want hand over the cash let him build it and never have an issue... Definitely right here sir, this is what I've done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Mahle pistons seem to be the piston of choice by a few traders on here , I also like the Tomei pistons and H beam Rods, they come with L19 ARP rod bolts, not $$$, not too sure why Tomei is not used more regularly HKS and Tomei cams where on the cam doctor machine , both spot on ; I would get the cheaper of the two I would also look into Billet main caps , might be worth doing especially if you get them cheap during a black Friday sale Or Do Luck do a nice billet girdle and main caps for reasonable money http://www.rhdjapan.com/do-luck-billet-main-caps-with-billet-ladder-frame-supra-2jz-gte.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) That's massively helpful, thank you mate so if the cylinder walls of my block aren't scored etc, then just stick with 86.5mm oversized pistons? Also, how comes it's best to stick with stock compression? As for wrist pins, what are your thoughts? OEM or are they usually supplied with con rods? Again thank you for your help If cylinders are all fine then you should be fine on just 86mm pistons but you could also go to 86.5mm for a fresh surface and peace of mind I guess. As for compression, if you go too high then you start to increase temperatures/stress levels and limit yourself on boost. I can only run 12psi or so just now as I am NA-T with a 10:1 compression ratio. Any more boost and I'll lift the head or melt something! So it's TT compression pistons for me before I can run the boost up. Go too low and it'll be lag city as the air fuel mixture isn't being compressed as much as before. This means a less violent explosion once it ignites. So stock compression is right in the middle of this and the ideal spot for your power goals. Wrist pins also come with the pistons....or at least my Wiseco's came with them I would disagree with the oil pump suggestion. By all means go oem on it, but companies like powerhouse supply their own pumps that have ported drain valves which in theory help reduce the pressure put on the front crank seal, especially on high horsepower applications. If you are handy with a drill then you can do this yourself though I guess that's a fair point, but OEM don't really tend to cause any problems and most folk running Jacky's power aim and beyond seem to opt for them. Edited October 25, 2016 by Style (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike2JZ Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 If cylinders are all fine then you should be fine on just 86mm pistons but you could also go to 86.5mm for a fresh surface and peace of mind I guess. As for compression, if you go too high then you start to increase temperatures/stress levels and limit yourself on boost. I can only run 12psi or so just now as I am NA-T with a 10:1 compression ratio. Any more boost and I'll lift the head or melt something! So it's TT compression pistons for me before I can run the boost up. Go too low and it'll be lag city as the air fuel mixture isn't being compressed as much as before. This means a less violent explosion once it ignites. So stock compression is right in the middle of this and the ideal spot for your power goals. Wrist pins also come with the pistons....or at least my Wiseco's came with them I guess that's a fair point, but OEM don't really tend to cause any problems and most folk running Jacky's power aim and beyond seem to opt for them. Not sure what I was smoking in my last post. I wasn't being clear, the oil pumps I was on about are OEM, they just have the drain valve ported. So in fact I wasn't disagreeing, just suggesting a modification. If the whole engine is coming apart for a rebuild then I think it would be in the OP's best interest to consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Not sure what I was smoking in my last post. I wasn't being clear, the oil pumps I was on about are OEM, they just have the drain valve ported. So in fact I wasn't disagreeing, just suggesting a modification. If the whole engine is coming apart for a rebuild then I think it would be in the OP's best interest to consider it. Ahh, got you now. Thought it was a full PHR built pump Definitely to be considered then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyBoi Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 One thing I've found on my setup is the 272 cams are a bit big for a fast spooling street car imo. I have a 6466 and HKS 272s on both sides and have been toying with the idea of going to 264s or a 264/272 intake and exhaust. I find full boost on pump isn't until 5k odd, but ethanol does bring that down. Last thing I will do before making the decision is playing with the cam timing and a few map tweaks, but the car is on hold for the moment while I sort other stuff out. Don't get me wrong, the 272s are great for making power and it pulls hard to the 8k limit, but I can't help thinking the first 4k is wasted so to speak! Lol. I'm sure plenty out there have had good results on 272s, Luc being one and also Steve, but he's running a different setup. I'd be happy to sacrifice a little bit of power to help spool as my 800whp is only really useful on a motorway! Back road driving is best done around 650 hp and wringing it's neck! [emoji41] Alright thanks for the input. I wanted a lumpy idle but I'm not sacrificing spool for a cool idle 264's all round it is! 256/256 or 264/264 would be your best bet for cams. If you are feeling brave go with a staggered set up of 256 (IN) / 264 (EX) although this does drop voumetric efficiency because the 256 (IN) is retarding while 264 (EX) is still running. The result from this will be more scavenging which is expunging, yet benefits as the added gasses are forced into the turbine for spool. Someone please correct me if I am wrong with advice on the staggered set-up. E2A A little light reading for you http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?404377-Hks-264-264-272-264-And-272-272-Testing-by-SP-ENGINEERING http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?45313-Cam-duration-new-idea-thinking&highlight=stagger http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?85172-272in-264ex-vs-256in-264ex-cam-setup-test-results Thank you mate, I'll definitely give those a read after work I think I'll stick with 264's all round Considering the luck you have had with this car and the poor workmanship already in places, tell Lee at SRD what you want hand over the cash let him build it and never have an issue... Haha. I'm still undecided on who will build the engine for me. SRD are obviously extremely good but also very pricey for labour and parts. My mechanic builds engines for a living, so I'm in safe hands Mahle pistons seem to be the piston of choice by a few traders on here , I also like the Tomei pistons and H beam Rods, they come with L19 ARP rod bolts, not $$$, not too sure why Tomei is not used more regularly HKS and Tomei cams where on the cam doctor machine , both spot on ; I would get the cheaper of the two I would also look into Billet main caps , might be worth doing especially if you get them cheap during a black Friday sale Or Do Luck do a nice billet girdle and main caps for reasonable money http://www.rhdjapan.com/do-luck-billet-main-caps-with-billet-ladder-frame-supra-2jz-gte.html Thanks buddy, definitely something I will consider, but OEM main caps will still be okay for my build no? Or should I really consider them? If cylinders are all fine then you should be fine on just 86mm pistons but you could also go to 86.5mm for a fresh surface and peace of mind I guess. As for compression, if you go too high then you start to increase temperatures/stress levels and limit yourself on boost. I can only run 12psi or so just now as I am NA-T with a 10:1 compression ratio. Any more boost and I'll lift the head or melt something! So it's TT compression pistons for me before I can run the boost up. Go too low and it'll be lag city as the air fuel mixture isn't being compressed as much as before. This means a less violent explosion once it ignites. So stock compression is right in the middle of this and the ideal spot for your power goals. Wrist pins also come with the pistons....or at least my Wiseco's came with them Ah I see, thank you for the information, looks like the stock 8.5:1 will definitely suffice then! Some really helpful people on this thread so far, thank you guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike2JZ Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 My mechanic builds engines for a living, so I'm in safe hands The amount of people that say that and then get burned is quite shocking. Be careful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Bullitt Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thank you mate, I'll definitely give those a read after work I think I'll stick with 264's all round No problem, remember as you are VVTi stick with HKS cams otherwise expect a very noisy engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
np89 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 No problem, remember as you are VVTi stick with HKS cams otherwise expect a very noisy engine Why are other brands of cam any noisier than an HKS set? I've never heard of this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyBoi Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 The amount of people that say that and then get burned is quite shocking. Be careful! I am extremely careful, don't worry. He's built 1JZ's, 2JZ's, 7M-GTE's, various BMW engines, RB26's, not to mention a 2 rotor No problem, remember as you are VVTi stick with HKS cams otherwise expect a very noisy engine Indeed I shall I never understood why that is... Why are other brands of cam any noisier than an HKS set? I've never heard of this before? To be fair mate I've heard of it as well. I have absolutely no idea why, but yeah, for VVTi the HKS cams are notoriously quieter than the others - who knows why! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
np89 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 To be fair mate I've heard of it as well. I have absolutely no idea why, but yeah, for VVTi the HKS cams are notoriously quieter than the others - who knows why! Yea, having never owned a VVTI I don't know much about that end of things in detail but would be interested to hear the theory behind it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Billet main caps you can argue what power levels you need them , as you are already removing the OEM caps it was just something to look into I would go with the advise of your engine builder , I am sure budget is a factor as most of us can only afford to do it right and do it once; to mitigate risk and evade the possibility of a catastrophic build, I would only choose an experienced JZ builder with a proven track record who builds these engines on a regular basis Once you have your short list , I would ring a few customers and verify their engine is reliable , see if you can learn any lessons from their experience, caveats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bailey Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 5k on a 6466 Jesus sounds awful lol We have 6466 with SRD 264 cams and make full boost circa 3600rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Budz86 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 5k on a 6466 Jesus sounds awful lol It is at times, works well when you push it though! To be fair, my setup is too large for the 6466. Low comp pistons, large cams, 4" pipework and 110mm TB really don't suit a street setup! Lol. Made more power than any other 6466 that I know of, but at the sacrifice of spool and dare I say it, driveability. Still have some cam tweaks to make but it's pretty much maxed. Ethanol makes a big difference to driving it but can't be arsed to run it all the time. 6870, 2 bar and rolling antilag next year. Time to leave 11s from a 60 roll If I was to do a 6466 again I'd go 264/264, high comp engine and a 90mm TB with 3 or 3.5" pipework and 4" DP and intercooler. Should see close to 750whp with ethanol and decent spool. IMO the gains from a 6466 over a 6266 journal aren't massive and almost don't warrant the extra cash, certainly when you consider the recent results emerging from the 6870 gen2, which isn't much more. Look at James Jefferson and Dom; both awesome cars and fantastic street setups on the 6266 journal. Hopefully Greg and the Baileys will be on shortly to give their view on the 6466 as I'm mindful mine is biased! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parry_10 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 It is at times, works well when you push it though! To be fair, my setup is too large for the 6466. Low comp pistons, large cams, 4" pipework and 110mm TB really don't suit a street setup! Lol. Made more power than any other 6466 that I know of, but at the sacrifice of spool and dare I say it, driveability. Still have some cam tweaks to make but it's pretty much maxed. Ethanol makes a big difference to driving it but can't be arsed to run it all the time. 6870, 2 bar and rolling antilag next year. Time to leave 11s from a 60 roll If I was to do a 6466 again I'd go 264/264, high comp engine and a 90mm TB with 3 or 3.5" pipework and 4" DP and intercooler. Should see close to 750whp with ethanol and decent spool. IMO the gains from a 6466 over a 6266 journal aren't massive and almost don't warrant the extra cash, certainly when you consider the recent results emerging from the 6870 gen2, which isn't much more. Look at James Jefferson and Dom; both awesome cars and fantastic street setups on the 6266 journal. Hopefully Greg and the Baileys will be on shortly to give their view on the 6466 as I'm mindful mine is biased! Understood, for me it's a 6266 or a 6870 the 6466 is completely pointless imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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