Jellybean Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) Hi Have a few Q's on fuel setup Billet fuel rail Sytec Racing FPR http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/fuel-pressure-regulators/fse-racing-adjustable-fuel-pressure-regulator Siemens 890cc Deka injectors What pressure should you see at Idle on a mechanical gauge connected to the FPR? I am not too sure how this is determined , injector size, engine specific? How do you know what to set it at? Would removing the fuel pulsation damper alter the pressure ( as the OEM is pre-rail)? If the car was mapped with the Fuel Pulsation damper, removing it cause an issue (increase in pressure)? I read 'Most' aftermarket FPR have a pulsation damper built in? http://injector-rehab.com/shop/fpd.html Noise wise, I read you have a noticeable audible noise with the Fuel Pulsation damper removed, if anybody can describe for comparison; would the built in pulsation damper not negate this or considering the FRP is post rail (OEM is pre-rail), this has an impact? Edited August 29, 2016 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) Cant see it making much difference in the return end If anything it will free up that extra bit of flow not being in the feed line and shouldnt cause issues being in the return Most people run sensors like fuel flex sensors in the return to not restrict the flow to the rail Didnt realise aftermarket fpr had them built in though Edited August 29, 2016 by berg (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 I just checked with the mapper and he noted , it will not impact the map on the car which makes sense as the injectors are characterised , I would expect them to use the fuel they need. On start up I was surprised at the level of noise dampening the standard OEM unit facilitates, on priming the system you can auditable hear the flow of fuel and inside the cabin I can hear ticking in tandem with the RPM (epecially on low speed, low rpm, just started) ; I presume the injectors pulsating ; it would be interesting to hear if other members have the same experience , especially members with an AEM FPR as these alleged have a damper built in; maybe the Sytec does not have any I cannot imagine it is something you 'put up with' when you remove the pulsation damper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Cant see removing the PD making any difference as its in the feed to the injectors, the FPR being at the end of the fuel rail makes the pressure by restriction, provided the pump was always up to the job there should be no problem, as for set pressure you should of had a recommended running pressure on the injector spec sheet, otherwise try std and work from there, more pressure will increase AFRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 Cant see removing the PD making any difference as its in the feed to the injectors, the FPR being at the end of the fuel rail makes the pressure by restriction, provided the pump was always up to the job there should be no problem, as for set pressure you should of had a recommended running pressure on the injector spec sheet, otherwise try std and work from there, more pressure will increase AFRs. thanks , will look into what Siemens recommends! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I just checked with the mapper and he noted , it will not impact the map on the car which makes sense as the injectors are characterised , I would expect them to use the fuel they need. On start up I was surprised at the level of noise dampening the standard OEM unit facilitates, on priming the system you can auditable hear the flow of fuel and inside the cabin I can hear ticking in tandem with the RPM (epecially on low speed, low rpm, just started) ; I presume the injectors pulsating ; it would be interesting to hear if other members have the same experience , especially members with an AEM FPR as these alleged have a damper built in; maybe the Sytec does not have any I cannot imagine it is something you 'put up with' when you remove the pulsation damper I have an AEM fpr to fit to mine when i fit my fuel system in and the stock dampener will be removed with an-6 line straight to the rail Be interesting to see what its going to be like if it has a dampener built in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Base fuel pressure is set with the pump running and the engine not running. Or with it running and the pressure / vacuum hose to the regulator disconnected. Ask your mapper for a sensible estimate for base fuel pressure calculated on injector flow and desired BHP. / engine efficiency. The ONLY FPR I would use on my own car is a Bosch one. Many other aftermarket ones are junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 3, 2016 Author Share Posted September 3, 2016 Base fuel pressure is set with the pump running and the engine not running. Or with it running and the pressure / vacuum hose to the regulator disconnected. Ask your mapper for a sensible estimate for base fuel pressure calculated on injector flow and desired BHP. / engine efficiency. The ONLY FPR I would use on my own car is a Bosch one. Many other aftermarket ones are junk. Thanks Chris , I think they are discontinued I think I read somewhere and if you can get one its $$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Frank Bullet found one somewhere as I fitted it recently, but it was ££££'s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Chris how do you know what pressure the Bosch unit is running , place for a gauge? Does it have a fuel pulsation damper built in? Are they dash 6 fittings? Edited September 28, 2016 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 There are several versions of them with different port configurations. I'll attach the pdf file. They don't have a pulsation damper, competition installations don't use them, noise isn't an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 Thanks Chris , Is it noisy on Frank Bullet's , I removed my Fuel pulsation damper and the noise is annoying me I am running the Sytec FPR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 I asked Fuel lab , FUELAB© 535 Series Fuel Pressure Regulators have a fuel pulsation damper built in? http://fuelab.com/forums/topic/fuel-pulsation-damper/ Our regulators use a fluorosilicone diaphragm and a metal seat to control the pressure. The diaphragm assembly acts as a damper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Thanks Chris , Is it noisy on Frank Bullet's , I removed my Fuel pulsation damper and the noise is annoying me I am running the Sytec FPR No idea, it is in a none running state until it's taken away and Syvecs map it. It's likely to be a bit noisier, injector wise, than stock, but given the exhaust he's had me put on it, I doubt anyone will hear the injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) No idea, it is in a none running state until it's taken away and Syvecs map it. It's likely to be a bit noisier, injector wise, than stock, but given the exhaust he's had me put on it, I doubt anyone will hear the injectors LOL , ahh he is not going with the M150 I have the Siemens Deka 110324.1.0, I noticed a ticking noise since removal, comes and goes depending on how I am driving I even have a HKS Hi Power Silent Exhaust on there , I normally drowned it out with the Radio ; think I will put the old unit back on How do you measure the actual fuel pressure on the bosch , with some sort of guage ? Where did you mount Franks? it states they mount on the manifold Is the return line (barb fitting on it) M14 too ? I would want to run a -6 line I was talking to my mapper and he has my sytec pressure setup as per OEM I can find the Bosch 280 500 566 , Supply 2 x M14 x 1,5 Reflow 8 mm, tube connector Reflow quantity min. 15 l/h, max. 220 l/h 4,5 … 12 bar, I can get M14X15 to AN6 adapters http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-6AN-06JIC-Male-M14x1-5-Female-Bosch-Regulator-Swivel-Adapter-/160696330734?hash=item256a3f69ee Sorry for all the questions Edited September 28, 2016 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 Hi Chris What about running the new Bosch Regulator and the Bosch FPR Adaptor ? Old Skool Bosch 280 500 566 is at 475 Dollars Ex shipping and Customs http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/en/de/produkte/catalog_categories_sncd_lev_1_744072.php# Fuel Pressure Regulator Mini A Feature icons 2.2 to 3.5 bar/3.5 to 5 bar Pressure adjustable 15 to 220 l/h reflow Sheet steel housing http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/en/de/produkte/catalog_products_1_744089.php http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/catalog_media/2777182347__Webjpg_w362.jpg FRP Adapter Aluminum housing Fits to production type regulators and Motorsport regulators (FPR Mini 2, Mini 5, Mini A) http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/en/de/produkte/catalog_products_1_744094.php http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/catalog_media/2777283723__Webjpg~1_w362.jpg http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/catalog_resources/FPR_Adaptor_Datasheet_51_en_2777257739pdf.pdf Connector supply 2 x M14 x 1.5 Connector reflow M14 x 1.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Yes, now the "olde school" ones are hard to get and silly money you can use the mini ones with the adaptor bodies. On the old style ones I just use the spare inlet port for the gauge hose or an adaptor for a pressure sensor. Presumably you can do the same with the mini ones, or tap the rail for an adaptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Yes, now the "olde school" ones are hard to get and silly money you can use the mini ones with the adaptor bodies. On the old style ones I just use the spare inlet port for the gauge hose or an adaptor for a pressure sensor. Presumably you can do the same with the mini ones, or tap the rail for an adaptor. Thanks ! , any reason you dont like the new ones or just being nostalgic LOL that can be expensive Sent an email to Bosch Motorsport for price , can you get them ? I am a a little confused what Reg to get , Fuel Pressure Regulator Mini A minimum is 2.2 bar , it appears I need a reg to go as low as 1.7 (my car is BPU , Mapper said to use OEM pressure) Toyota GTE Service Specs... Fuel Pressure at Idle w/vacuum hose disconnected is 33-40psi (2.3 - 2.8 kgf/cm) Fuel Pressure at Idle w/vacuum hose connected is 24-31psi (1.7 - 2.2 kgf/cm) Bosch Part numbers http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/en/de/produkte/catalog_categories_sncd_lev_1_744072.php# Fuel Pressure Regulator Mini A Pressure Range 2.2 to 3.5 bar B 280 550 340-03 FPR Adaptor Commercial Type No.: F 02U V00 735-02 Edited September 28, 2016 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Well a Mini A would seem to do what you need. I haven't used a Mini * regulator as I have a couple of old style ones spare for my own usage, and customers seem to usually supply their own. The Bosch figures will be with atmo at the control port. When you apply a vacuum the rail pressure will fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 Well a Mini A would seem to do what you need. I haven't used a Mini * regulator as I have a couple of old style ones spare for my own usage, and customers seem to usually supply their own. The Bosch figures will be with atmo at the control port. When you apply a vacuum the rail pressure will fall. thanks , Do you want to sell me an old Skool one or see if you can source a mini A and Adapter ? or if you can recommend somebody who sells bosch units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 Not wanting to sell these, they are too useful to me, sorry. But go here for Bosch Motorsport parts: http://www.motorsport-systems.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a98pmalcolm Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 Hi mate. I run a fuel pulsation delete back from when I was BPU, didn't really hear a difference lol. I have been told 3 bar of pressure during idle with the vacuum pipe off. Obviously butt he pipe back on once thats set lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 I have been told 3 bar of pressure during idle with the vacuum pipe off. Obviously butt he pipe back on once thats set lol 3Bar static is a good starting point, an injectors spray pattern is affected by pressure so when using aftermarket units it would be good to check with the manufacturer what pressure they recommend, also the flow rating of the injector would be quoted for a certain pressure too as you can see on the injector sheet I posted below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 29, 2016 Author Share Posted September 29, 2016 (edited) I am running Seimens Deka injectors 110324 110324, FI114992 Siemens Deka EV1 80lb Fuel Injector Flow rate: 3 BAR/43.5 PSI 830 cc/min 80 lbs/hr 9.89 g/sec Length: 3 inches, 74 mm Diameter: 19 mm Orings: Top and bottom, 14.5 mm 830 cc/min, 80 lbs/hr, Siemens Mototron Deka IV Fuel Injectors https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/825cc-siemens-deka-iv-110324 Edited September 29, 2016 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 29, 2016 Author Share Posted September 29, 2016 (edited) Hi mate. I run a fuel pulsation delete back from when I was BPU, didn't really hear a difference lol. I have been told 3 bar of pressure during idle with the vacuum pipe off. Obviously butt he pipe back on once thats set lol I get a ticking noise since removal , will check the fuel pressure , I bought a gauge to run off the spare port http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?336390-Annoying-ticking-noise What FRP are you running some have a built in Pulsation damper like AEM , Fuel Lab Edited September 29, 2016 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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