So, how do I get started?

[Wonga Spar]

Being my first of probably many posts on this forum, firstly hello all

 

So as you've probably guessed I'm looking to get started in purchasing and later-on developing a MkIV Supra, and have a fair few questions that I'd appreciate any insight on. Gunna hit you with a bit of backstory as I'd love some input on how smart/stupid my thought-processes are and which direction I should be taking.

 

So, I'm 23, been driving for 5 years, just finished University and have spent the last 9 months working my first grad job paying off debts. The debts are paid off and it's (finally) time to start working towards the long-term car plan of- you guessed it.

 

The first thing I'd love to enquire about is Supra value inflation. I've watched these cars slowly but surely increase in value over the last 5 years, and it's terrifying me. I'd love to hear any discussion/input about where this inflation is going, If somebody is going to tell me with good reasoning that this car should increase 10-15% per year, I will hold off another 6 months until more money is in my pocket. If you guys think these cars could soon turn to hot-shit collectors items and I should employ the grab-it-while-I-can attitude, then let's do this shit, I'll be looking to buy. Worst-case scenario I'll be buying it and putting it in my garage for a year, then looking to start work on it in the future.

 

To be clear, I should not be looking to buy this car at the moment, and it will involve taking out a large loan. My job is stable and I'm on mid-20k salary but my first question is how deep am I getting myself in buying a 20-year-old performance car on borrowed money. Yes this will be a daily driver (for about 6 months).

 

The second thing is values. Being really honest, while performance is a huge factor, I'd consider any Supra. There's always time to sell/upgrade in the future, but I see the Supra market in the same light as the housing market, get on it and work your way up. At the moment I'm thinking 3-8k for NA Auto, 8-13k for TT Auto or Manual NA, and 15K+ for Turbo+Manual. How accurate am I here, and where would you suggest I start?

 

I'm not keen on paying top dollar for "stock" / untouched examples, tacky body-kits don't scare me and can easily be removed in the future, I'm interested in maximum-Supra for minimum-money, happy to spend the time un-doing some molestation the car might have suffered if it saves me £2k. Yes it's a short-sighted approach, but I'm in this for the long-run, and I'm not 30y/o with plenty of capital in my hands who can pay top-dollar for an unmolested example. With this in mind, which direction would you guys point me in?

 

Lastly, daily driving. Would it be as stupid as my friends/colleagues make it sound? Daily driving a collectors car? Or would you say screw it, do what makes you happy, the repair bills won't be that bad.

 

So in short, I'd love to hear about inflation rates, values of NA/TT/Manual/Auto configurations (year doesn't really bother me, and I can worry about aesthetics after narrowing down my understanding engine/trans configuration values) and where you'd recommend I start.

 

I appreciate I've just joined here and launched into an essay, but I plan on sticking around here now that my finances are somewhat in place, and I'm really looking forward to getting active on these boards, and greatly appreciate any input/direction you kind lot can offer. I've never had much of an interest in "normal" cars, and can comfortably see myself staying on the Supra-ladder indefinitely.

 

Little/Some mechanical background, currently driving a Gen 7 Celica.

 

TL;DR I'm young and stupid, can somebody let me know if even considering a Supra is stupidity squared.

 

 

EDIT: If this is utterly ridiculous, let me have it. I'd love nothing more than for somebody to sit me down and tell me how unfathomably stupid considering this investment is. I'm looking at the performance, iconic styling and my personal fascination with the car, weighing it up next to other 2012 3-Series my mates are all buying, and thinking I don't see the downside of a Supra. If this is utterly ignorant and I deserve to be called a prat, let me have it. If however, it's not all that big-and-scary, and loaning 80% of a 12k car (that isn't exactly a 2015 Fiesta in terms of sensibility) isn't as stupid as I'm consistently told, then let's buy one of these bad-boys and I can continue to harass you lot for the next 8 months while I try and fix it.

Looking forward to hearing from you fellas!

Edited August 23, 2016 by Wonga Spar (see edit history)

[mwilkinson]

Hi.

 

I've owned a Supra since I was 26. I've never owned it as a daily driver, but instead a weekend toy.

 

10 years ago I wouldn't have given a second thought to a Supra being a daily driver. Today, it's a different matter. They can be expensive to run and maintain. Especially compared to today's standards. So this would make me cautious of having one as my only car.

 

Your prices are about right. Whilst there have been price increases over the last few years, I can't see any major increases coming our way. There are some very inflated prices on the market, especially for big power cars which is distorting peoples perceptions of value. The declining £ against the Japanese Yen has also made people think that Supra values have increased when in reality I think most of it is simple exchange rate factors.

 

I would imagine that most Supras fail to get their advertised prices and people aren't quick to promote how much they have paid.

 

I've had my 1996 J-Spec 6 spd Single Turbo for just over 2 years now and paid £17.5K for it. I don't think it's value will have increased that much.

 

I'd hold fire on a purchase unless a bargain comes up. You'd be bether, as always, having the money vs having a loan to buy it.

[marbleapple]

You view a Supra as an investment but at the same time you want to use a loan, use it as a daily driver and stick lots of plastic bits on it. Isn't that a little contradictory? Are you intentionally wanting to destroy the investment?

 

I bought a supra as a daily drive. I've done it twice. Both times I regretted it. A 22 year old rear wheel drive sports car in winter isn't much fun. By fun I mean, you simply want to get to work at 5.30 in the morning without wrapping the car around a lamppost.

 

I have a daily and I have a Supra. Daily is in the garage for its MOT. Walked to the garage to drive the Supra to work. Battery was flat because the aerial had drained the battery (i'd been working on it). I ended up getting a taxi. I don't believe you can rely on a Supra even as a stand in for the daily car!

Edited August 23, 2016 by marbleapple (see edit history)

[samdale]

The amount of people I see advertising cars like this for sale because they need to free up the cash for a house deposit is huge.

My advice (I'm assuming you're not a home owner yet) is to do 1 of 2 things.

 

1) Ignore the Supra, save like hell, buy a house, then look at treating yourself to a Supra.

 

2) Buy an n/a without using a loan, run it but don't spend silly money on it, save and buy a house, then look to modding/upgrading to single/TT.

 

I don't think Supra prices will skyrocket but expecting them to appreciate slowly

[marbleapple]

The amount of people I see advertising cars like this for sale because they need to free up the cash for a house deposit is huge.

My advice (I'm assuming you're not a home owner yet) is to do 1 of 2 things.

 

1) Ignore the Supra, save like hell, buy a house, then look at treating yourself to a Supra.

 

2) Buy an n/a without using a loan, run it but don't spend silly money on it, save and buy a house, then look to modding/upgrading to single/TT.

 

I don't think Supra prices will skyrocket but expecting them to appreciate slowly

 

This guy speaks sense.

 

You could always buy a house with a 5% deposit, pay off some capital, remortgage and take monies from the property to buy yourself an even better Supra.

Edited August 23, 2016 by marbleapple (see edit history)

[samdale]

This guy speaks sense.

 

You could always buy a house with a 5% deposit, pay off some capital, remortgage and take monies from the property to buy yourself an even beter Supra.

 

Funny you should say that. I bought my house 2 years ago with a 5% deposit. I've just had it valued and I could probably buy 2 TT6s with the amount it's gone up by in 2 years. However I've done a fair bit of overtime plus cashed in some shares so I won't have to do that. Off up to JM imports tomorrow to pick mine up!

[jim]

I have to disagree to an extent - I've been driving mine daily for ten years next month, it's serviced religiously and *touch wood* it never lets me down. I put 100k miles on my first Supra and sold it for the same money I paid for it eight years earlier, and bought my current one for the same money I sold my last one for, which going by current prices means I'm up maybe 50% on the value of the car. Ten years with no depreciation can't be bad Servicing and maintenance is generally no more expensive than any other car. I would agree though that it's not much craic in the snow when I'm trying to get to work and worrying about binning my pride & joy, so I've learned to accept that I just need to get a bus for a week in the winter if it snows.

[Scooter]

Do not rush the buying process, buy right and you can have a very reliable daily driver, buy wrong and it will hurt you financially.

 

Buy sensibly and you can pretty much take depreciation out of the equation so higher running costs can offset your mate who buys a brand new Focus or whatever.

 

Diy'ing servicing and basic repairs/more involved maintenance will save you hundreds/thousands over the long term, as will leaving the car untouched modification wise, so basically buy one you like the look of already and that has the power you want already.

 

A non turbo is a less risky route simply because they cope with some neglect well, so it should have survived the careless owner it's had at some point in its 20 years, TT's are much more sensitive to regular servicing and a year or two in the wrong hands with no or crap oil changes can mean problems are looming. TT engines seem to be going for £4,000 I think a NA one would struggle to get £1,000 it's just one example of the costs.

 

I feel for you as they are relatively expensive now, a few years ago no one saw NA's (particularly auto's) being in the £5K+ region.

 

Have you actually looked at any up close?

[Wonga Spar]

Great advice, thank you. I'm starting to slowly think buying a well-looked after NA off the forums here might be a great option, then with learning and finances look at bigger cash-drops in the future. As for looking at one up close, sadly not. We had one come by the garage I used to work at and I had the pleasure of towing it onto the truck. Never been driven/driven in one, and never "thoroughly" looked over one with the interest in buying, they're too bloody rare!

 

So prices are definitely moving up? Fast enough to warrant getting in ASAP? My biggest fear is that in the next 2-5 years you'll be looking at 30k+ for a TT-6 Speed which is frankly approaching serious-car money.

 

EDIT: Thought I was sending a 1-on-1 response, instead of replying to the whole thread, still getting used to formatting... Thank you to everybody who has offered input, some great answers in here and it's much appreciated. Really interested to hear that the list-price of Supras is rarely met, so while the prices might appear to be inflating rapidly, there's a big more wiggle-room than I'd assumed.

 

EDIT 3: Interesting to hear about the amount of people in similar situations (house deposit vs Supra) fortunately my living arrangement is great, paying minimum amounts of mortgage towards my GF's house, and in 2-3 years will be looking at purchasing a second. Basically I'm not pouring money away on rent, which means more $$$ to chase naughty car ambitions and no rush to buy.

 

With all this advice in mind, I guess I'm in the market to buy a Targa NA Auto, any further buying advice (worth the extra 4k for Manual?) would be greatly appreciated. Any advice on pricing/what to avoid etc, the more the merrier!

Edited August 23, 2016 by Wonga Spar (see edit history)

[Wonga Spar]

You view a Supra as an investment but at the same time you want to use a loan, use it as a daily driver and stick lots of plastic bits on it. Isn't that a little contradictory? Are you intentionally wanting to destroy the investment?

 

I bought a supra as a daily drive. I've done it twice. Both times I regretted it. A 22 year old rear wheel drive sports car in winter isn't much fun. By fun I mean, you simply want to get to work at 5.30 in the morning without wrapping the car around a lamppost.

 

I have a daily and I have a Supra. Daily is in the garage for its MOT. Walked to the garage to drive the Supra to work. Battery was flat because the aerial had drained the battery (i'd been working on it). I ended up getting a taxi. I don't believe you can rely on a Supra even as a stand in for the daily car!

 

Thank you for your input, but I think you might have misunderstood. It's the investment value of these cars that terrifies me, I want no part in buying a collectors car/investment, I want to buy the car and drive it to hell and back. I'm worried that the longer I wait to buy the harder this will be to accomplish/justify. "Plastic bits" aren't for me, but I'm not too fussed if I find a car in great mechanical condition and it's got some silly things on it (even better actually, as I might get a better price), I'm in this for the long run and any car I buy I would inevitably undo work, and do my own work on it.

[Scooter]

The Supra even being thought of an investment or appreciating car is very new (2 years tops) and it seems to be happening with lots of cars given the current economics where there is little point in having high levels of savings.

 

Back then in the time of £2K NA's, sub £5K auto TT's and circa £8-9K TT6's no one saw the tide turning, many thought the natural downwards depreciate curve would continue, the current view point is that they are only heading one way, upwards, this is now supported by our poor pound (they are costing more to import) the prices everywhere else (we've historically valued them a lot lower) and the general classic/modern classic asset inflation that seems to be going on. Will it continue like it can with some Fords I'm personally not sure, the only reason I say this is if I was without a Supra now would I spend £18K on a TT6.....probably not. There is a very nice looking NA auto on autotrader for £7,995 but am I willing to pay that, er no! Saying that if the prices become the norm and established then the buyers view point can become one of 'I cannot lose' as the price is static at worse (I'm not 100% convinced we are there yet)

 

I would not say there is a rush in general, but sometimes you need to rush for a specific car if you see what I mean?

[jim]

You'd be sitting on a clean fortune if you'd stashed away all your previous Supra's in a barn Scooter!

Edited August 23, 2016 by jim (see edit history)

[mc92]

I have been dailying my NA5 for about a year, it's fine in the winter as long as you adjust your driving to the conditions. Gets about 20mpg on average and the only money I've had to spend on it is fixing things that I knew were substandard when I bought it. If you don't need cargo space and don't intend on giving multiple people lifts it works well. Make sure you go have a look at a couple before buying, there are quite a few members down in the southeast so if there's a meet on there maybe you could go along.

[Anh]

We all wanted fast interesting cars in our 20's.

 

You only live once, so if you can afford one then go for it.

 

Just make sure you have the spare cash to keep it in good condition.

[Scooter]

You'd be sitting on a clean fortune if you'd stashed away all your previous Supra's in a barn Scooter!

 

 

it's typical but at the time each one funded the next and to be honest I feel lucky to have had the chance to buy them rather than feeling I've missed out on any profit......so no regrets and the two I still have are nice ones just auto's (nothing against them but one of each would have been perfect!)

 

Some sales of mine off the top of my head and all fairly recent.

Facelift TT6 bought and sold for £8K

Facelift NA aerotop sold for sub £3K!

Facelift 6 speed RSP SZ-R £5K

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

We all wanted fast interesting cars in our 20's.

 

You only live once, so if you can afford one then go for it.

 

Just make sure you have the spare cash to keep it in good condition.

 

Agreed!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I have been dailying my NA5 for about a year, it's fine in the winter as long as you adjust your driving to the conditions. Gets about 20mpg on average and the only money I've had to spend on it is fixing things that I knew were substandard when I bought it. If you don't need cargo space and don't intend on giving multiple people lifts it works well. Make sure you go have a look at a couple before buying, there are quite a few members down in the southeast so if there's a meet on there maybe you could go along.

 

Glad it's not caused you any major issues

[Richie_k83]

Just go for it! lol

 

I did with mine and even though it has spent more time off the road then on it (Because of constant modifications) I still want to use it at every given opportunity, even when the Throttle Body Conversion is done lol

[Scooter]

Just on the reliability point, I found a thread from a decade ago and there aren't a great deal of new common issues that spring to mind that aren't mentioned here. What you will find is some of these will have been done on ones now (crank pulleys, valve stem seals), just don't but one where all the these bits need doing in the short term!

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?72502-Most-likely-future-problems

[fullthrottle]

My advice

 

1 Keep the celica for now

2 buy a house

3 don't get married or have girlfriends moving in (hookers are cheaper in the long term)

4 save your money and get any car you want

[Hitbox Junkie]

I'm 24 bought my supra when I was 23. I've not head it run yet or driven it and it's been a year and a half

 

They are a money pit, the cost could have made a decent deposit. But I'm not ready to leave home yet simply because the housing down here are rediculous and banks won't let me borrow what I want even though I can afford repayments this is down to me being on my own and yearly salary calculations... it's total rubbish. Just giving you a predicament you could find yourself in.

 

My advice is to save and get a house.

 

My stupid advice is save and buy a supra because it will put a smile on your face.

 

I wouldn't take out a 20k loan to get one though.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Hitbox Junkie (see edit history)

[Sheefa]

I say go for it too.

 

I bought my first 93 Black Auto TT on a bank loan 2 months after graduating for £8k. Similar to you, I was starting a solid job on £27k and was living at home still at 23 years old. I had some spare cash but definitely needed the loan to purchase. Long story short in under 14 months the car I bought cost me £7-8k in bills due to various problems (poor prior work, blown turbo seals, a minor mishap, faulty electrics). It absolutely killed me financially and most of the time it was in the garage being "sorted". That said when it worked My oh My it was the best thing ever I would actually skip/run from the train station to the car park after work to get in and drive her home - only 5 minutes down the road mind. I sold that car a year later in perfect condition for £8,500 if I remember correctly due to wanting to save for house deposit at 24.

 

Fast forward 5 years and the itch for another Supra over that time started to grow and grow, especially for a manual this time. Low and behold I had a house, a stable very well paid job, and was in a good position to buy one outright. So I went to see a stunning Mustang Blue TT6 and met the owner James (top guy) and bought it without hesitation for about £10,500 I think. I spent a couple of thousand on it that year but mainly on a full service, fitting an AFR gauge, new sound system, replacement seat belts, fog light conversion and a few other bits and dress up parts. It was also treated to a serious detailing session and new clutch/flywheel when it let go in Dragonball. Overall it was a stunning car and never let me down. I sold it to raise additional capital for a bigger house. I sold it for £10,800 I believe which was quick and easy.

 

Fast forward 2 years and we bought a bigger house, have had a baby girl, got married, changed jobs (promotion) and I had the annoying itch again. Luckily for me whilst I didn't have the spare cash to buy a supra this time round without a loan given we ploughed so much into the above life changing events, I did see a gradual trend of Supra prices appreciating. I had to get on the bandwagon ASAP before things became out of reach quickly. I knew the best bet for me would be another Manual 6 speed, but this time I wanted a ready built Single Turbo as it was always the unicorn for me. When a UK spec Manual Single Turbo came up at £17k I never hesitated at the opportunity and bought it through a loan :woot:That said I had to spend £4K on new suspension, a full service, brake/fuel lines and various other parts but not bad for just over £20k having a top spec Supra. I was then made redundant, albeit I put my hand up for it after 10 years with the company I originally started my career with (see Supra one paragraph). So, that was a little nervy but I lined up a better paid job, took my £50k redundancy package, had 3 1/2 weeks off and paid off the loan alongside putting a decent amount of money away for my little girls future, and now we're considering a bigger house

 

Oh and I recently spent the best part of £12k upgrading my Supra setup too

 

So, let's go back to the start of my life story, I took a gamble and bought my first Supra with a loan and never regretted it. Unfortunately I am left with a permanent Supra affliction but it has been worth every single penny over 10 years and it'll sure out a smile on your face my friend every time you friend the key

 

Good luck and go for it

 

Greg

Edited August 23, 2016 by Sheefa (see edit history)

[Wonga Spar]

I say go for it too.

 

I bought my first 93 Black Auto TT on a bank loan 2 months after graduating for £8k. Similar to you, I was starting a solid job on £27k and was living at home still at 23 years old. I had some spare cash but definitely needed the loan to purchase. Long story short in under 14 months the car I bought cost me £7-8k in bills due to various problems (poor prior work, blown turbo seals, a minor mishap, faulty electrics). It absolutely killed me financially and most of the time it was in the garage being "sorted". That said when it worked My oh My it was the best thing ever I would actually skip/run from the train station to the car park after work to get in and drive her home - only 5 minutes down the road mind. I sold that car a year later in perfect condition for £8,500 if I remember correctly due to wanting to save for house deposit at 24.

 

Fast forward 5 years and the itch for another Supra over that time started to grow and grow, especially for a manual this time. Low and behold I had a house, a stable very well paid job, and was in a good position to buy one outright. So I went to see a stunning Mustang Blue TT6 and met the owner James (top guy) and bought it without hesitation for about £10,500 I think. I spent a couple of thousand on it that year but mainly on a full service, fitting an AFR gauge, new sound system, replacement seat belts, fog light conversion and a few other bits and dress up parts. It was also treated to a serious detailing session and new clutch/flywheel when it let go in Dragonball. Overall it was a stunning car and never let me down. I sold it to raise additional capital for a bigger house. I sold it for £10,800 I believe which was quick and easy.

 

Fast forward 2 years and we bought a bigger house, have had a baby girl, got married, changed jobs (promotion) and I had the annoying itch again. Luckily for me whilst I didn't have the spare cash to buy a supra this time round without a loan given we ploughed so much into the above life changing events, I did see a gradual trend of Supra prices appreciating. I had to get on the bandwagon ASAP before things became out of reach quickly. I knew the best bet for me would be another Manual 6 speed, but this time I wanted a ready built Single Turbo as it was always the unicorn for me. When a UK spec Manual Single Turbo came up at £17k I never hesitated at the opportunity and bought it through a loan :woot:That said I had to spend £4K on new suspension, a full service, brake/fuel lines and various other parts but not bad for just over £20k having a top spec Supra. I was then made redundant, albeit I put my hand up for it after 10 years with the company I originally started my career with (see Supra one paragraph). So, that was a little nervy but I lined up a better paid job, took my £50k redundancy package, had 3 1/2 weeks off and paid off the loan alongside putting a decent amount of money away for my little girls future, and now we're considering a bigger house

 

Oh and I recently spent the best part of £12k upgrading my Supra setup too

 

So, let's go back to the start of my life story, I took a gamble and bought my first Supra with a loan and never regretted it. Unfortunately I am left with a permanent Supra affliction but it has been worth every single penny over 10 years and it'll sure out a smile on your face my friend every time you friend the key

 

Good luck and go for it

 

Greg

 

Wow, that was an emotional journey!

 

Honestly thank you for the response, exactly what I was hoping to hear. It sounds like you managed to avoid what I'm terrified of (putting off the purchase, settling down and finding general responsibilities always get in the way of driving a TT6).

 

You also highlighted my biggest concern, getting priced out of entry. I'd really love to hear more about your opinions on this. TT6 prices (and all Supras for that matter) are getting so outrageously expensive, when compared with the (relatively new) cars you can pick up for similar money, do you think this bubble might just pop? It'd be just my luck to put £12k into a car and it to drop to 8k in year. As much as I love them, you can get a shitton of car for 12k (that isn't 20 years old). Do you see these prices getting even more ridiculous? Doubling in 3 years is utterly obscene, and if they get any worse, a TT6 might forever be out of reach...

 

Really glad to hear everything worked out, and your car journey was always fulfilling!

Edited September 20, 2016 by Wonga Spar (see edit history)

[berg]

My advice is if you can afford it, do it while you are young and you can, life changes fast and who wants to live to regret

 

Millions of people buy over priced brand new cars on finance and pay upwards of £500+ a month and 90% dont even own the car at the end of the term

 

Bank loan will be considerably less APR, monthly payments etc and as i say if shit hits the fan, you sell it on, it will only increase in value

 

Ive never took a loan for a car, but if i had the choice of loan or finance its a no brainer

[Action Jackson]

Hi Wonga, looks like theres a few of us sub-25s itching for a Supra at the moment! Welcome to the forum

I am in exactly the same place as you (considering you're somewhat contributing to a mortgage) - bought a house, done the travelling thing, now im saving up large amounts of cash each month as I have got nothing else to spend it on. Been wanting a Supra for years, it is the very top of my list of "dream car".

 

I will be joining you by using a loan to get my dream Supra in a few months time, after I have seen a few and gotten to know Supras a little better. The guys on here are ace, and I have already had several offers to be shown some members cars and taken out in them. Have a chat to some of the guys in your area and see if there's a meet soon - lets be honest, if you had a Supra you would want to show it off too!

[Action Jackson]

Oh, and my step dad did exactly the same thing when he was 24 - I told him I was looking for a Supra and his first reaction was "buy the best you can afford. You wont regret it."

He bought himself a Jenson Interceptor which lasted 10 years! 7.2 litre V8

 

[The Raven]

I love my supra.

 

I to joined when sub 3k N/A was common place. I dont really have alot of advise on what you should do with your money but its a strange state of affairs when you work out you couldnt afford to buy your own car anymore. The sad fact is if i was looking at a supra now there is no way i could afford mine.

 

My guess is still once the yanks can import them they will sky rocket in price