Matt Harwood Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Having recently had an engine oil change, I've been told that the auto box and the diff. need oil changes as well. Has anybody else done this? How often are they supposed to be changed? Is it true that there is a gearbox oil filter inside the box? I assume that whatever is needed can be obtianed from a Toyota dealer, but, as with engine oil, is there a better type of oil to use? Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for any feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 All Toyota A340E 'boxes should be filled with the Toyota ATF-TypeIV and NEVER EVER any other there was a mis-issue of the advice that it not required for pre-93 cars but that was ONLY for the A340E sent to the states, ALL J-spec and ALL genuine european models need this oil. Change is also the wrong word, drain a little off and top-up to the correct level is a bit of a mouthful, but the actual thing that MUST be done at least ONCE a year. Out of interest.... how many of you know how to check your Auto'box level? 80% of owners do not how to do this correctly, 25% of Garages have at least one 'mechanic' who got this wrong! (AA.1994) Scary eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 So what is the difference between the A340E's shipped to the States as compared to those in Europe and Japan ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 13, 2002 Author Share Posted February 13, 2002 What's the correct way of checking the box oil then? - I thought you'd just use the dip stick.. Is there a gearbox oil filter? Any ideas on diff oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 OK Just guessing, To Check auto box oil level. Drive the car to warm the box. Park on level ground. Apply hand brake, put in neutral then move to and from neutral to each gear 123 R then R 321 with manual switched on then repeat with manual off and overdrive on. Repeat stick shifting. Then check the fluid level. This process will spread fluid to all parts and then what is left should just be up to the maximum mark. Checking with out this process will give and over filled result, or conversely if you only fill to the max without this process you have much less fluid than you think. It is a good idea to change the whole lot not just the drain and top up as recommended by the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Phil wins the plaudits, that is correct, but that small jorney means use the COLD part of the dipstick to use the HOT side you must have travelled at least 20miles! You should not drain all the oil from the 'box unless you can refill it and start and 'drive' it with the wheels raised, the box must never be driven under ANY load after a full change until at least 60 seconds after turning the wheels in the air, you will damage a 'big' box like the A340E. The early A340E was sent to the States with a different seals they require the ATF-TYPEII and not any other. NEVER use ordinary Dexron in the A340E, if you have not done this then dont despair, go to Toyota get the right stuff and change it over in the next week or so (by dilution effectively) the changes will be smoother the pick-up quicker and running will be quieter, oooh and the damn thing might just last longer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 There is a post on here somewhere, sorry not got the time to find it, that desribes a method of changing the fluid without the box being drained. This effectively keeps the box full of fluid by linking into the cooling system hoses and replacing old fulid with new while the box is running. IMO the Toyota manual method of draining only the oil in the sump and toping up is just about OK for 'normal' use. however if you are power braking or drive very hard you should consider a fluid chage to get rid of all degraded fluid. (Edited by Phil Wall at 7:32 am on Feb. 14, 2002) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I'm afraid Phil that with that last paragraph I must disagree, if you swap over all the oil each time instead of just the little bit then the system will 'glaze-up' because of the constant high level of 'additives' in the ATF, this is very important and a number of auto'boxes are ruined by doing this, only change as per the spec. This keeps the concentration of these additives below the 'precipitation level'. A complete change should only happen very very rarely or if the 'box is rebuilt. Auto'boxes actually like to be given a hard time at least a couple of time a week and will actually last longer that way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Quote: from Mycroft on 12:18 pm on Feb. 14, 2002[br]I'm afraid Phil that with that last paragraph I must disagree, if you swap over all the oil each time instead of just the little bit then the system will 'glaze-up' because of the constant high level of 'additives' in the ATF, this is very important and a number of auto'boxes are ruined by doing this, only change as per the spec. This keeps the concentration of these additives below the 'precipitation level'. A complete change should only happen very very rarely or if the 'box is rebuilt. Auto'boxes actually like to be given a hard time at least a couple of time a week and will actually last longer that way! No problem it was an opinion any way thanks for putting others and me straight. There had been posts about the topic of complete changes some time ago, the informed opinion appeared to go for the complete flush as I suggested above. I have not carried out the complete flush, but had purchased the tubing to enable me to do so, during next week. Thanks you may have saved my gearbox and many bottles of fluid. I did not intend to mislead but was merely passing on what I thought to be good advice. As for need to be driven hard a few times a week, I have no problems on that score. Come to think of it all my auto boxes have had a good regular thrashing and they have all last ages. Don't you just love kick-down:biggrin: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I am totally addicted to it! After a while you just do it to scare yourself! Adrenaline...just like testosterone.....you gotta use it to have fun inlife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Quote: from Phil Wall on 1:33 pm on Feb. 14, 2002[br]Quote: from Mycroft on 12:18 pm on Feb. 14, 2002[br]I'm afraid Phil that with that last paragraph I must disagree, if you swap over all the oil each time instead of just the little bit then the system will 'glaze-up' because of the constant high level of 'additives' in the ATF, this is very important and a number of auto'boxes are ruined by doing this, only change as per the spec. This keeps the concentration of these additives below the 'precipitation level'. A complete change should only happen very very rarely or if the 'box is rebuilt. Auto'boxes actually like to be given a hard time at least a couple of time a week and will actually last longer that way! No problem it was an opinion any way thanks for putting others and me straight. There had been posts about the topic of complete changes some time ago, the informed opinion appeared to go for the complete flush as I suggested above. I have not carried out the complete flush, but had purchased the tubing to enable me to do so, during next week. Thanks you may have saved my gearbox and many bottles of fluid. I did not intend to mislead but was merely passing on what I thought to be good advice. . hmmmm .................... I'm in a spookily similar position ,Phil I too am just about to do a complete flush (just bought 12litres of type 4 fluid from Toyota ) How can this be bad ???....... surely a new box has new fluid not part worn stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 OK let me explain this a little better, when the 'box is new it is a metal shell, it needs lubricating and it needs to coat all the surfaces so as to make the operation smooth and to keep some constancy to the lubrication, so the ATF has additives that 'coat all the sufaces when new, this is done by heat precipitation, effectively as the ATF is heated the additives drop out of suspension and do their stuff, they get worn down over time and the ATF becomes thin and less effective so you replace the small amount of ATF as per the Service book, the new ATF has sufficient additives to maintain this coating and also enough co-polymers to rekindle the older ATF, the long chains are 'rejoined' .(it is the simplest way to explain it without going into the Cationic attraction stuff) Now when you drain it out completely you leave behind this coating, it can only be worn away it will never drain out with the flushing, so them you put a whole load of the additives and when they drop out of suspension they are unable to adhere to the surfaces and they 'sludge' it is a fine sludge but that is what it is and it can only do damage. I'll hunt out one of my papers on this and post up shortly a simple test to verify just what the state of your ATF at any one time..I have just remembered, so here goes; Fluid in good condition should be red like new fluid. Some discoloration with use is normal, but if the fluid is brown or smells like burnt toast, it is badly oxidized and is overdue for a change. Varnish on the dipstick is another indication of fluid neglect and the need for a change. A quick way to test for worn transmission fluid is to do a "blotter" test. Place one or two drops of ATF from the transmission on a paper towel and wait 30 seconds. (don't guess use your watch) If the spot is widely dispersed and red or light brown in color, the fluid is in satisfactory condition. But if the spot does not spread out and is dark in color, the ATF is oxidized and should be changed. The presence of visible dirt or debris in the fluid is bad news because it tells you there’s junk circulating inside the transmission that doesn’t belong there. The transmission should be flushed immediately, and the fluid and filter changed to prevent any further damage. (Edited by Mycroft at 3:17 pm on Feb. 14, 2002) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I must say this does seem pretty convincing. But I am surprised we have not heard about this before. Matt, if you decide not to go ahead with the full fluid change, I will have some of the fluid from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I would say you will be hard pushed to fully drain an auto box anyway, the torque converter will hold a massive amount of oil so much so that you would probably need a full strip down and rebuild of the box to get all the oil out. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Quote: from branners on 5:30 pm on Feb. 14, 2002[br]I would say you will be hard pushed to fully drain an auto box anyway, the torque converter will hold a massive amount of oil so much so that you would probably need a full strip down and rebuild of the box to get all the oil out. JB The method I was gonna use was to disconnect the lines to the cooler ..... the outlet goes to a big empty bucket , the inlet to a bucket containing almost 3 gallons of nice new expensive fluid Run car until new fluid is in the 'box and old fluid is in the bucket . Well I was until that convincing post previously I'll have a read and then decide ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 John, from what I recall of the post, I think Ash was saying that all the fluid would be changed, by replacing some of the pipe work and pouring fresh fluid in as the old stuff was pumped out, thus maintaining a full state during the whole process. So you would get a complete change, assuming that all the fluid circulates through the rad in one cycle. Matt we must have posted at the same time. (Edited by Phil Wall at 5:47 pm on Feb. 14, 2002) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Phil, you have heard all of it before, it is in the service schedule, they don't 'spell it out' quite so technically but it is stated quite clearly what to do, and that is drain a little and top up on time and according to the Service schedule, what you HAVE heard is a lot of 'Bar Room' mechanics who think that they know best and who mistakeningly think 'it stands to reason, replacing the lot has gotta be better' wrong, wrong, wrong. Branners, it can be done but it is entirely pointless and damned expensive in time and materials, save money, do the right thing regularly and the car will be all the better for it. (Edited by Mycroft at 5:49 pm on Feb. 14, 2002) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I am convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Well after a quick google ......... Complete ATF replacement is very common in the states ......and lets face it , they have shitload of autos over there Scenario: You fit a fit a new torque converter to anotherwise good 'box. You change the fluid as per spec at the same time ........ How far can that be from a full change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I also remember reading about a number of guys having short lived boxes, but they were doing load of powerbrake starts. I dont kown what they were doing about fluid changes. I know a guy who runs an auto box repair shop, I will give him a ring in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 And we all know how smart the 'average' American is don't we. (no offence) they also have a lot of oil companies (vested interest) and they change their cars more often than us. Just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean its right, but it is entirely your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 14, 2002 Author Share Posted February 14, 2002 Iain, what do you know or recommend about the gearbox filter? Anyone know anything about the diff oil replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Quote: from Matt Harwood on 9:04 pm on Feb. 14, 2002[br]Iain, what do you know or recommend about the gearbox filter? Anyone know anything about the diff oil replacement? Take it out for a thrashing to get the diff hot .....drain from bottom plug...... then fill to level with the top plug I think its 90w oil....... the specs are on the net somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 14, 2002 Author Share Posted February 14, 2002 Take it out for a thrashing to get the diff hot Oh no, do I have to..... :biggrin: Is changing the diff oil something that should be done on a regular basis? - My car's done 40,000 miles and I have no idea if it has ever been done before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrboomberang Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Reading this from 2002 still comes in handy in 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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