cered Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 My concern is the nutters of this world going down a different route and instead of blowing people up or shooting them they poison them on mass Agreed, it's a lot easier to kill people using a bit of thought not just going in with a bang (literally). Nukes are expensive, regulated and even illegal ones are a nightmare... Working out how to make a batch of lethal chemicals by visiting the 'dark web' for an hour or two is a lot easier, cheaper and will have the same but perhaps more 'terrorizing' effect. I think if you put some smallpox or something nasty on a few hundred £5 notes in a city like London... On a busy day thousands would be contaminated. Thousands of dead/sick people before the powers that be can even work out what's happening/what's going on and how to stop it. Much more morale impact than just a straight up explosion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Something nasty in the water supply or airborn, perhaps I've watched too many movies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cered Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Something nasty in the water supply or airborn, perhaps I've watched too many movies Luckily those are grossly exaggerated, the water supply is so big/fast flowing it'd have a minimum effect due to dilution. You could dump 20 oil drums of pure ricin or something into a water supply somewhere and by the time it reaches a tap it'll be so diluted the worst thing it'd do is remove the calcium deposits on the pipes... probably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Wouldn't even need to go on the dark web to find the info. Hell, I can tell you now how to make 100 of the most deadly and efficient toxins and bio agents that are undetectable and won't trigger responses on google searches, online or even in store purchasing. Chemicals are easy to make/manufacture, it's the release that's the problem. They don't last long, aren't potent enough unless in huge quantities but you can't release vast quantities. Bio weapons is where it's at, but everything is so closely monitored it's impossible to do on a grand scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Ricin won't dilute as such in water. And even 1mg of ricin will kill a man in minutes if it's in the blood stream. Plus our water treatment is far too superior to be susceptible to bio or chem attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc92 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Good, nuclear deterrent is necessary unfortunately and submarines are the best way to deliver it since they can get in close meaning less chance of the missile being shot down. It'd be nice if we could develop our own british delivery system but that sounds even more expensive than the current option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Luckily those are grossly exaggerated, the water supply is so big/fast flowing it'd have a minimum effect due to dilution. You could dump 20 oil drums of pure ricin or something into a water supply somewhere and by the time it reaches a tap it'll be so diluted the worst thing it'd do is remove the calcium deposits on the pipes... probably I wonder if people who believe in homeopathic remedies are terrified by this prospect of heavily diluted poisons in their tap water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I wonder if people who believe in homeopathic remedies are terrified by this prospect of heavily diluted poisons in their tap water? Are we talking about a certain forum member with questionable camera skills?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 You guys should watch this on iPlayer, scary stuff, its a documentary - Inside Porton Down: Britains Secret Weapons Research Facility http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07hx40t/inside-porton-down-britains-secret-weapons-research-facility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Back on topic, there isn't an option to remove it from Scotland and put it somewhere south of Gretna, so I've voted for not replacing it. As one of a handful on here who live in the beautiful county of Argyll, where these weapons of mass destruction are stored,I want them removed for good. I don't have a problem with a conventional naval base on the site. The area around Faslane does not enjoy any kind of financial boom, the MOD do not use local produce or foodstuffs, with most of the re-stocking of food and drink from abroad, including Chinese chicken and Argentinean beef. (As revealed in a Radio 4 documentary about food quality in the forces). There is no significant financial benefit to the area, in fact the nearest town, Helensburgh, is a dump, with many areas of significant poverty and deprivation. Most of the fictitious 5,000 'employees' are naval personnel and sub-contractors from out of the area. The true total is around 550 directly employed workers. Please take it away and give us back a potentially glorious corner of Scotland! We've tried the democratic route with all but the solitary Tory MP against Trident, perhaps it's time for some organised people power to force it to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 A deterrent, by its definition, deters people from launching first. Why should it fall to America to keep Europe safe? And why should we outsource our defence to the French? Looking at the dire state of the French armed forces, I don't think that is a good idea at all. If these new subs aren't going to be housed in Scotland, why should we build them there? Surely the socially responsible thing to do is to provide the reward of the work to those who will bear the responsibility for housing them? The Trident boats and their predecessors are built at Barrow in Furness,which is in Cumbria, or was when I was there two weeks ago. ill informed You often are...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I still do not see, who we have to be worried about so much, that we can justify to spend billions of pounds on nuclear missiles instead of let's say space program, new energy sources like cold fusion etc. Same engineers, but at least something useful might come out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Just to clarify a few things for people. If we scrapped trident, that money can't be spent on renewable energy, the NHS, pensions blah blah, it can only be spent on defence. Which is a requirement of NATO to spend a percent of our budget. So nothing else can happen if we scrap it, unless you'd want us to leave NATO? And westcoaster, the MOD don't provide our military food or drinks except rations. That's civilian companies namely Sodexo. And the food quality is poor, something which no one would ever serve, not even to their enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The Trident boats and their predecessors are built at Barrow in Furness,which is in Cumbria, or was when I was there two weeks ago. You often are...... I wasn't aware a contract had been handed out for these new subs yet? Unless your powers of perception extend to seeing the construction of boats many years before they even leave the drawing board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_bandido Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 This might be a good time to remind anyone thinking about making specific comments about Barrow or the successor programme that this is a public forum and they may wish to remember the terms of their clearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I wasn't aware a contract had been handed out for these new subs yet? Unless your powers of perception extend to seeing the construction of boats many years before they even leave the drawing board https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Maritime_–_Submarines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Ah Wikipedia... I could probably edit the page stating the ICBM's where made out of mushrooms, people would believe it too.. /s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Ah Wikipedia... I could probably edit the page stating the ICBM's where made out of mushrooms, people would believe it too.. /s He has a point, but the point I was making, obviously not very clearly, is that there has been no decision taken as to where these new ones will be built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Not sure why there would be a surprise that Barrow would build the next lot of nuke subs, they won't be made on the Clyde, that is for sure. https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/key-issues-parliament-2015/defence-and-security/trident/ Mind you, the MOD could be contrary enough to build them in China, after all, if the Chinese can build your next lot of nuclear power stations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 And westcoaster, the MOD don't provide our military food or drinks except rations. That's civilian companies namely Sodexo. And the food quality is poor, something which no one would ever serve, not even to their enemies. Sedexo, that very controversial French multinational company that won an MOD tender to supply food at the lowest price and was heavily implicated in the 2013 horsemeat scandal. I'd wager that the French armed forces are better fed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Sedexo, that very controversial French multinational company that won an MOD tender to supply food at the lowest price and was heavily implicated in the 2013 horsemeat scandal. I'd wager that the French armed forces are better fed! Yeah, we are all still wondering how or why that company won the contract? I'd wager that people in third world countries are better fed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Yeah, we are all still wondering how or why that company won the contract? I'd wager that people in third world countries are better fed /QUOTE] After staying on HMS Sultan and HMS Collingwood I can confirm Sodexo are absolutely terrible. I overheard one of my colleagues talking to an employee of Sodexo who said the daily allowance per person (cost wise) was less than what a prisoner gets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 After staying on HMS Sultan and HMS Collingwood I can confirm Sodexo are absolutely terrible. I overheard one of my colleagues talking to an employee of Sodexo who said the daily allowance per person (cost wise) was less than what a prisoner gets... This is one of the arguments against Trident renewal, give the armed forces the equipment and conditions to do the job, not spend a limited budget on politically motivated 'vanity' project such as Trident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Ridiculous decision. What will rise to £100bn could be better spent on other areas of national defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 An interesting article: http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/18/truth-trident-shocking-fact-turn-us-paying-nukes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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