Another attack on France

[Chris Wilson]

They are always having Coups in Turkey. They probably treat them like we do our Cobra meetings.

NATO members indeed.... fast tracked into the EU, indeed.... I wonder what Mr. Putin is doing right now.

 

The Greeks will be rattled, too.

[Abz]

I've agreed with your point in another post

 

I'm simply stating that Islamists, like other fundamentalist religious / political groups, have some basis in religion, and/or the cultures derived from religions.

 

Just as you wouldn't associate most Christians with the likes of Westboro Baptist Church, there is no denying that their foundation is based in Christianity, even if the idiots go against more teachings than they uphold.

 

Islamists were sacking Constantinople, Medina etc, enslaving Spain in their Caliphate, and butchering innocent Indians en masse a long time before the Iraq war.

 

Christianity, Islam, and to a lesser extent Judaism have been utterly brutal, violent forces of governance since their inception. Perhaps the prevalence with Islamic fundamentalism in current times is because it is a newer religion than Christianity, which went through a similar violent phase which lasted for over a thousand years and only ended a few hundred years ago. Hopefully Islam won't prove to be as detrimental to the world as Christianity has been.

 

Just to put things into perspective, so far what we know about the guy who did this, is that he is a recently divorced Dad of 3. He was weird, kept to himself. Used to be seen drinking beer, did not attend the local mosque, was known to police for violence & petty crimes.

 

Has not pledged to anyone, nor has it been claimed by Dash.

 

Yet, here we are talking about religion... So tell me what this has to do with religion?

 

 

 

[j_jza80]

Just to put things into perspective, so far what we know about the guy who did this, is that he is a recently divorced Dad of 3. He was weird, kept to himself. Used to be seen drinking beer, did not attend the local mosque, was known to police for violence & petty crimes.

 

Has not pledged to anyone, nor has it been claimed by Dash.

 

Yet, here we are talking about religion... So tell me what this has to do with religion?

 

Terrorists don't have to belong to any sort of group. This was a planned attack, obviously designed to cause mass fear and panic. The very definition of terrorism. I dare say there are plenty of Muslims who live in the west who don't go to the mosque, and drink beer (I went to Oktoberfest with a Muslim who probably drank more beer than me ). Just as there are many jews who eat pork, and many Christians who never attend church or fast for lent. Religion is a personal choice, not something that is dictated by diet or attendance at organised prayers.

 

But you are quite right, I am making an assumption about his motives, and we should probably wait until the results of the investigation confirm one way or another. But given recent events in France, and the highly suspicious sequence of events yesterday, I am probably correct. I will of course offer Mohamed Bouhdel a full and frank apology for slandering his good name if I am wrong

[Abz]

Terrorists don't have to belong to any sort of group. This was a planned attack, obviously designed to cause mass fear and panic. The very definition of terrorism. I dare say there are plenty of Muslims who live in the west who don't go to the mosque, and drink beer (I went to Oktoberfest with a Muslim who probably drank more beer than me ). Just as there are many jews who eat pork, and many Christians who never attend church or fast for lent. Religion is a personal choice, not something that is dictated by diet or attendance at organised prayers.

 

But you are quite right, I am making an assumption about his motives, and we should probably wait until the results of the investigation confirm one way or another. But given recent events in France, and the highly suspicious sequence of events yesterday, I am probably correct. I will of course offer Mohamed Bouhdel a full and frank apology for slandering his good name if I am wrong

 

Planning? He drove a lorry into a crowd of people. Hundreds of lorries drive in London amongst many crowds, it wouldn't need much planning for anyone to do this.

 

So if your friend killed someone it would be in the name of Islam obviously. He fits the exact character of all the other killers. Even the other guys who did the recent attack owned a bar, did drugs. So you should really be scared about your mate [emoji6]

[j_jza80]

Planning? He drove a lorry into a crowd of people. Hundreds of lorries drive in London amongst many crowds, it wouldn't need much planning for anyone to do this.

 

So if your friend killed someone it would be in the name of Islam obviously. He fits the exact character of all the other killers. Even the other guys who did the recent attack owned a bar, did drugs. So you should really be scared about your mate [emoji6]

 

He also had a gun. So there's at least some element of planning involved. Unless French truck drivers have started carrying firearms?

 

Are you suggesting this Tunisian national just drove a truck into a crowd of people, and continued to pursue and kill people with no motive? If we were talking about an individual murder, I would also err on the side of caution. But this is very obviously a terrorist incident.

[j_jza80]

Also, he had a number of fake weapons and grenades in the vehicle, which again, doesn't seem like a spur of the moment thing to do.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb,and guess that the security services are, at the very least, going to find extremist material and / or search history on his computer.

 

The things we do know about this atrocity just don't shape up to be some random, isolated incident IMO.

[Annabella]

Isis or isil or daesh or whatever they wish to be named or are named have claimed he was a follower, disciple or thick fuck.

[Kendo11]

Yep, Aamaq have claimed it this morning.

 

 

[Chris Wilson]

Now a knifing in southern France, allegedly by an ethnic who thought a mother and her two child daughters were inappropriately dressed for a hot summer's day, plus an axe man citing himself as an IS soldier goes berserk on a train. Are we becoming inured to all this? I can see Marine Le Pen getting her Elysee Palace headed notepaper order in....., and Merkel booking the removal firm. Eyes RIGHT>

[Shane]

Now a knifing in southern France, allegedly by an ethnic who thought a mother and her two child daughters were inappropriately dressed for a hot summer's day, plus an axe man citing himself as an IS soldier goes berserk on a train. Are we becoming inured to all this? I can see Marine Le Pen getting her Elysee Palace headed notepaper order in....., and Merkel booking the removal firm. Eyes RIGHT>

 

Ah yes the attempted slaying of 19 people on a train in Germany by a Afghani migrant. Daesh later released a video of the "Islamic state fighter" vowing to take revenge on the west for airstrikes. I guess we shouldn't presume he was a terrorist from this either, maybe he was just looking for work as a lumberjack and happened to be carrying an axe on the train. I am quite shocked at how little media coverage this particular incident has gained, here is a guy who came to Germany as a minor, was provided with sanctuary and means and then does this in the name of Islam. I hope for Merkel's sake he wasn't one of the many migrants she let stop during the most recent influx. That would be her final nail I would think.

[j_jza80]

The real tragedy here is the vast majority of these migrants and refugees will be peaceful, who just want to make a new life for themselves in a peaceful country.

 

However, even if just 0.1% of these are Jihadists, that's 1000 Jihadists that have entered Germany alone in the last year.

 

You can't expect to absorb huge numbers of people like this, without also absorbing their own cultural issues.

 

I'm afraid to say that I think it is too late to stop this. Yes, eventually religion will pretty much die in the developed world, but for the short to mid term, violent Islamism will just be a fact of life across Europe, and we will be reminded of this on a regular basis by these disgust and cowardly attacks.

[Kendo11]

Now a knifing in southern France, allegedly by an ethnic who thought a mother and her two child daughters were inappropriately dressed for a hot summer's day, plus an axe man citing himself as an IS soldier goes berserk on a train. Are we becoming inured to all this? I can see Marine Le Pen getting her Elysee Palace headed notepaper order in....., and Merkel booking the removal firm. Eyes RIGHT>

Allegedly.

 

Roughly translated as being false & reported by the far right and picked up by the gutter press over here and since debunked as nonsense.

 

 

[j_jza80]

Allegedly.

 

Roughly translated as being false & reported by the far right and picked up by the gutter press over here and since debunked as nonsense.

 

/QUOTE]

 

Equally likely to be even worse than described. And being downplayed by the authorities ad the French government is already deeply unpopular over these attacks.

Just as we saw in Germany when the authorities were attempting to sweep migrant crimes under the rug.

 

The truth is, we don't know either way at the moment.

[Kendo11]

IS, for anyone actually interested, have "claimed" both the Nice truck driver and German train attacker.

 

They've claimed them although they've been self-radicalised.

 

IS have also left out certain personal details of the Nice truck driver as his lifestyle wasn't compatible with their ideology.

 

The real tragedy is the fact that there is still no clear direction in which the West is going to fight the ideology of IS.

 

What self-radicalisation means is that anyone you know who could be inclined to do something in line with some new found beliefs; migrant, refugee or indigenous.

 

It probably doesn't help when coalition airstrikes kill hundreds of civilians, children included, in a single day.

 

Although it doesn't make the news.

 

The problem is being thought out in the wrong way as per usual.

 

 

[Kendo11]

Equally likely to be even worse than described. And being downplayed by the authorities ad the French government is already deeply unpopular over these attacks.

Just as we saw in Germany when the authorities were attempting to sweep migrant crimes under the rug.

 

The truth is, we don't know either way at the moment.

Which is precisely the attitude that allows the right to jump on situations and make them something they're not.

 

 

[j_jza80]

IS are only a part of the problem. Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, Hamas etc are all similar groups. Then look at events like the attack on Malala, and recently that social media star in Pakistan. Islamism, and Conservative Islam are the problem. Our so called Allies in Qatar and Saudi Arabia etc.

 

The only things these people share are a hatred of our liberal Western values, and they they believe they have a God given right to inflict their ideologies on others.

[Annabella]

IS are only a part of the problem. Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, Hamas etc are all similar groups. Then look at events like the attack on Malala, and recently that social media star in Pakistan. Islamism, and Conservative Islam are the problem. Our so called Allies in Qatar and Saudi Arabia etc.

 

The only things these people share are a hatred of our liberal Western values, and they they believe they have a God given right to inflict their ideologies on others.

 

Now here lies part (not all) of the problem, George Dubya and Blair did that if you remember, their god given ideologies, Blair and George Dubya were very in 'god's name'. Before you all jump, its not an excuse, but they really have made things a lot worse and we're paying for that now.

[Kendo11]

IS are only a part of the problem. Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, Hamas etc are all similar groups. Then look at events like the attack on Malala, and recently that social media star in Pakistan. Islamism, and Conservative Islam are the problem. Our so called Allies in Qatar and Saudi Arabia etc.

 

The only things these people share are a hatred of our liberal Western values, and they they believe they have a God given right to inflict their ideologies .

 

IS is the main issue being discussed and are the main group targeting the West at the moment.

 

Boko have pledged allegiance so look at them as one and the same.

 

AQ will be something to worry about when Bin Ladens son takes control soon.

 

But back to IS and the point about self radicalisation, you can only fight that at the moment by fighting the ideology.

 

Bombing 100 civilians will feed that.

 

And like Annabella said, Bush was all for fighting for God.

 

 

[Chris Wilson]

Michael Scheuer's latest posting on Europe and its response to the Nice massacre makes interesting and sobering reading:

 

http://non-intervention.com/2259/of-...-work-at-home/

[Digsy]

It probably doesn't help when coalition airstrikes kill hundreds of civilians, children included, in a single day.

 

Although it doesn't make the news.

 

Just playing devil's advocate here but how do you know this? Social media?

One of my FB friends once shared a post showing some very disturbing images of the aftermath of a coalition air raid. Turns out they were all from different and completely non-related events around the world. The image that showed the jets bombing the target was CGI. A complete fabrication.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but if civilans are being killed in their hundreds on a daily basis I would have though it would be common knowledge by now, regardless of the lack of mainstream media reporting, and there would be no need for these fabricated stories, designed to drum up even more hatred for the West.

[Kendo11]

Just playing devil's advocate here but how do you know this? Social media?

One of my FB friends once shared a post showing some very disturbing images of the aftermath of a coalition air raid. Turns out they were all from different and completely non-related events around the world. The image that showed the jets bombing the target was CGI. A complete fabrication.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but if civilans are being killed in their hundreds on a daily basis I would have though it would be common knowledge by now, regardless of the lack of mainstream media reporting, and there would be no need for these fabricated stories, designed to drum up even more hatred for the West.

Not something I can reply to clearly on mobile.

 

For now, Google "open source intelligence".

 

Nothing I can take credit for, but it's pretty easy to learn what/who is spreading propaganda and who's being factual.

 

Will go into it more at some point over the weekend if I have chance to before I go on holiday.

 

 

[Annabella]

The Germans turn:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36870874

[imi]

Merkel has a lot to answer for - not only has she put Germany in Jeopardy, she has invited more terrorists into Europe.

[JasonR24]

Merkel has a lot to answer for - not only has she put Germany in Jeopardy, she has invited more terrorists into Europe.

 

Not only that but she likes to deny it

[j_jza80]

I'm afraid to say that I think it is too late to stop this. Yes, eventually religion will pretty much die in the developed world, but for the short to mid term, violent Islamism will just be a fact of life across Europe, and we will be reminded of this on a regular basis by these disgust and cowardly attacks.

 

I was hoping we'd get more than 2 days fascist, Islamist scum.