Another attack on France

[Kendo11]

Blaming France is simply giving legitimacy to these vile actions. He was a French and Tunisian citizen, just how many bombs have France dropped on France and Tunisia?

 

For some background, the attack might be a response to "Omar the Chechen" (senior IS dickhead) being killed this week in an airstrike.

 

Not justification, but could explain the timing (aside from Bastille day also).

 

IS/AQI have not claimed this attack either yet, which might mean it was a lone wolf.

 

Incredibly difficult to police against.

[el_bandido]

At what point did I lay the blame entirely on France? That was also quite clearly a response to the "people with no homes" comment, as there is probably a very good reason they no longer have a home. Also - I'm not a home owner, does this make me a potential terrorist? And I stand by my comment that the last 15 years of Western foreign policy have propagated the current brand of extremism; the coalition of the willing created Islamic State.

 

Using events like this to call for further restrictions on privacy is also using (in your own words) vile actions to legitimise an ideology.

[j_jza80]

At what point did I lay the blame entirely on France? That was also quite clearly a response to the "people with no homes" comment, as there is probably a very good reason they no longer have a home. Also - I'm not a home owner, does this make me a potential terrorist? And I stand by my comment that the last 15 years of Western foreign policy have propagated the current brand of extremism; the coalition of the willing created Islamic State.

 

Using events like this to call for further restrictions on privacy is also using (in your own words) vile actions to legitimise an ideology.

 

You were blaming Western foreign policy in the Middle East, of which France is an active participant. Is Western foreign policy responsible for these morons believing that anyone who doesn't worship Allah will burn in hell? Or that homosexuality is a sin? Or that Western culture is evil? Or their general dislike of equality?

 

Islamism is the problem not the West, and in an ever smaller world, Islamism and Western liberalism and secularism can never live peacefully.

[pedrosixfour]

I really do miss the ordinary everyday nut job.

 

Any chance the psycho behind the wheel could've just been one of those?

 

Y'know, like that co-pilot who'd had one too many bad days and decided to turn a plane-full of people into a lawn dart.

[cered]

The people that do these under the "ISIS" banner aren't Muslims, I feel it's an insult to Muslims to call them that.

 

They're just religious radicals who've been brainwashed or kidding themselves into thinking they're doing the right thing. The first people to condemn what happened in Nice would be Muslims because they're the people who get the majority of abuse for it.

 

I only know a few Muslims and they haven't wished harm upon anyone, but a few non-religious white people on Facebook who've suffered no grievance as a direct result seem to want to 'send them all back to Africa' for some reason

[j_jza80]

The people that do these under the "ISIS" banner aren't Muslims, I feel it's an insult to Muslims to call them that.

 

They're just religious radicals who've been brainwashed or kidding themselves into thinking they're doing the right thing. The first people to condemn what happened in Nice would be Muslims because they're the people who get the majority of abuse for it.

 

I only know a few Muslims and they haven't wished harm upon anyone, but a few non-religious white people on Facebook who've suffered no grievance as a direct result seem to want to 'send them all back to Africa' for some reason

 

Exactly, and from what I gather some of the of the victims of yesterday's atrocity were Muslims. But to these Islamists, Western Muslims are every bit the infidels that the rest of us are.

[Pete]

Before you all go off half cocked on next to no information as usual....does anyone know what this dude actually wanted or was trying to raise awareness of?

[Scooter]

Whilst I'm not one for assumption but the reported guns and grenades seems to point away from a village idiot/mentally ill loner type with a weird/no agenda?

[cered]

News said he yelled "Allah Ackbar" during the attack but I don't think anyone has claimed it - pro ISIS idiots supported and praised it though

[el_bandido]

You were blaming Western foreign policy in the Middle East, of which France is an active participant. Is Western foreign policy responsible for these morons believing that anyone who doesn't worship Allah will burn in hell? Or that homosexuality is a sin? Or that Western culture is evil? Or their general dislike of equality?

 

And I still am. Western foreign policy has created an environment in which the extreme end of this ideology has thrived and expanded; that is absolutely undeniable. The complete lack of any plan for providing a stable post-war infrastructure has left a void which IS have (very successfully) filled. The response to this should be solidarity, not further security measures or "booting them out", whoever "they" may be. To categorise an entire demographic based on the actions of a few is utter hypocrisy. You are never going to stop a lone or small band of nutters from doing something like this, regardless of whether they are migrants or not. I didn't see anyone blaming the migrant crisis when terrorists hit Baghdad earlier this year, but French people look a lot like British people so it must be more of a tragedy.

[Chris Wilson]

Before you all go off half cocked on next to no information as usual....does anyone know what this dude actually wanted or was trying to raise awareness of?

 

Well, I don't think it was the price of diesel.... Ask a bookie for some odds, betting against it being done by him in the name of "Islam" should give good odds.

[Kendo11]

Before you all go off half cocked on next to no information as usual....does anyone know what this dude actually wanted or was trying to raise awareness of?

 

No one has claimed it, but IS social media was going absolutely crazy seconds/minutes after it happened.

 

They've also recently been pushing for supporters/lone wolfs (hate that phrase) to use whatever means necessary to strike - they have explicitly advised people to run civilians down using vehicles, trucks and so on.

 

Inspired by IS, not a direct IS attack, seems likely at the moment.

[Chris Wilson]

I still find it hard not to be mainly in agreement with the ex CIA agent Michael Scheur's opinions on the US and the West's policies and how they are not only ineffective, but blatantly contributing to the rise of Islamic extremism.

 

I also find it hard that people still do not see that through their crazy immigration policies and rights for minorities, Europe is still in denial that they are facing a proper war, and continue to poo poo such talk as inflammatory.

 

http://non-intervention.com/

 

He is shunned by many Liberal, but his ideology seems sound, if hard to swallow.

[Annabella]

He likes Hilary doen't he

[j_jza80]

And I still am. Western foreign policy has created an environment in which the extreme end of this ideology has thrived and expanded; that is absolutely undeniable. The complete lack of any plan for providing a stable post-war infrastructure has left a void which IS have (very successfully) filled. The response to this should be solidarity, not further security measures or "booting them out", whoever "they" may be. To categorise an entire demographic based on the actions of a few is utter hypocrisy. You are never going to stop a lone or small band of nutters from doing something like this, regardless of whether they are migrants or not. I didn't see anyone blaming the migrant crisis when terrorists hit Baghdad earlier this year, but French people look a lot like British people so it must be more of a tragedy.

 

How is the West to blame for Assad? Tunisia is one of the biggest sources to Islamic terrorists, other than spending millions there in tourism, what have the West done there?

 

These Islamists have been massacring each other, and Europeans, for hundreds of years before any sort of Western intervention or imperialism.

 

This extremism isn't just a result of a grievance (rightly or wrongly) about western foreign policy. These people despise us for our values, and our freedoms. Our liberal culture is destroying their backwards one, and that is their main grievance.

 

But it doesn't matter how much of a stink they kick up, or massacres they plan, in a few decades organised religion will be largely relegated to the past where it belongs, and our liberal values will endure. That is the March of progress

[Kendo11]

And I still am. Western foreign policy has created an environment in which the extreme end of this ideology has thrived and expanded; that is absolutely undeniable. The complete lack of any plan for providing a stable post-war infrastructure has left a void which IS have (very successfully) filled. The response to this should be solidarity, not further security measures or "booting them out", whoever "they" may be. To categorise an entire demographic based on the actions of a few is utter hypocrisy. You are never going to stop a lone or small band of nutters from doing something like this, regardless of whether they are migrants or not. I didn't see anyone blaming the migrant crisis when terrorists hit Baghdad earlier this year, but French people look a lot like British people so it must be more of a tragedy.

 

You make some good points there.

 

The one reason IS have flourished and initially came to be is because of our failings in the region.

 

It's pretty well known that Baghdadi was in Saddams inner circle and they were trying to create a "caliphate" before we stepped in.

 

The problem is the situation we've left the region in has fueled their rise to power in the region and it's fueled the ideology.

[Abz]

It is everything to do with religion. Namely the civil war that exists within Islam, and the grave threat that Western liberal society and values poses to Islamists. Our greatest weapon against these people is education, though we should be using an economic 'big stick' to punish those countries and organisations that preach theocracy and discrimination.

 

We could certainly get our own house in order though by banning all religious / cultural schools in the UK, and introducing a uniform, secular education for all. I think I would also like to see some sort of mandatory boarding or exchange system in education too, to help break up the divided 'communities within communities' that the country currently suffers from.

 

Now let's break this down in the most simplest form possible.

 

In the last few weeks hundreds of Muslims were killed in Bagdad, Pakistan, Bangladesh. Literally hundreds and they live in the East.

 

The bombing's have happened in Mosques (these places that Muslims pray in & it is a sacred place). During Ramadan (one of the five pillars of being a Muslim, when they fast to appreciate the less fortunate, a month of charity). They bombed in markets where people were shopping to celebrate Eid (Christmas).

 

An check this out, 90% of the victims are Muslims.

 

So, please do explain to me how this has everything to do with religion. You know these terrorists who have a history of being junkie's, drunks, criminals and have no idea about religion.

 

An remember this... 20 years ago, we never had this problem, unless I am missing something and Islam was founded 20 years ago.

[j_jza80]

I've agreed with your point in another post

 

I'm simply stating that Islamists, like other fundamentalist religious / political groups, have some basis in religion, and/or the cultures derived from religions.

 

Just as you wouldn't associate most Christians with the likes of Westboro Baptist Church, there is no denying that their foundation is based in Christianity, even if the idiots go against more teachings than they uphold.

 

Islamists were sacking Constantinople, Medina etc, enslaving Spain in their Caliphate, and butchering innocent Indians en masse a long time before the Iraq war.

 

Christianity, Islam, and to a lesser extent Judaism have been utterly brutal, violent forces of governance since their inception. Perhaps the prevalence with Islamic fundamentalism in current times is because it is a newer religion than Christianity, which went through a similar violent phase which lasted for over a thousand years and only ended a few hundred years ago. Hopefully Islam won't prove to be as detrimental to the world as Christianity has been.

[mc92]

Very sad. Any coward can steal a truck and do some damage, what can be done against this kind of attack?

[Kendo11]

Serious stuff going on in Turkey, rumours of a bloody military takeover attempt.

 

Tanks on the streets of Istanbul apparently

[j_jza80]

According to the Guardian, the military are claiming they've now taken power.

 

Hopefully they can avoid any bloodshed

[Kendo11]

Just seen footage on twitter of helicopters opening fire over Ankara.

 

Military saying it has control.

 

State media telling normal people to go out onto the streets and literally fight back.

[ManwithSupra]

What is going on... wont be long until everything falls apart...

[Kendo11]

What is going on... wont be long until everything falls apart...

Wtf is going on with 2016.

 

Oddly enough the military have historically been more democratic in Turkey, than Erdogan who's very hard line.

 

The problem is shots are being fired etc, could end badly.

 

 

[Al Massey]

I didn't think it would be long till there was a military takeover.

 

Their government is corrupt and a huge joke.

The government fight each other more in official meetings.

 

It's clear some civilians are happy with their leadership, probably because they are blinded by a few good things.