Big Mark Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Alas it looks like my 86 year old dad needs to go into care home as he's too much for my mum to cope with even with a carer twice a day. This means the local authority will look at his assets and if £14k-£24 he pays a percentage and £24k+ he pays in full for care. Plus he has state and another pension. So at present he'd have to pay in full. The problem I have is that his two bank accounts are solely in his name, from which he gives my mum money and pays all the bills. She has no savings or forms of income. So if they are going to use his savings and pension to pay for his care what is my mum supposed to live on? I've just spoken to a solicitor (useless) who said that if accounts where in joint names them it wouldn't be an issue but they're not and we can't now change the account to joint names as that's deprivation of assets according to her. Any ideas of what can and can't be done? Is it worth putting accounts into joint names anyway? What about buying a car (a 4 door classic that won't depreciate) as a means of me getting him around (neither parent drives) "or to visit in in his care home and take him out in" and then selling it? I have visions of them taking everything and leaving my mum with nothing, hence my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Have a butchers at the below link from Age Concern. I can't see how any assessment of your father's financial position couldn't be undertaken fairly without consideration of your mother. I don't see how you mother being a joint account holder would deprive any assets as her shared ownership of them is probably without question. Surely they couldn't leave your mother destitute as part of a fair assessment? http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/deprivation-of-assets-in-the-means-test-for-care-home-provision/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mark Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 You'd thnik the solicitor would of said what you just did but nope. Was no use at all. Someone else has said it depend on how ruthless that local authority is. I'm thinking of putting the account in joint names anyway. Not sure how the local authority would know when that was actually done anyway as they'd just see it in joint names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I would go ahead and put the account into joint names, and if its questioned, then all that needs to be said is that as he is going into care, his wife needs more control of their assets, as he normally pays bills etc, so now he needs to have that pressure removed, after all it is their money no matter who the account holder is, she would normally be entitled to half if they divorced, or...... sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraP-Z Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Like you said bud, they arent going to look at details of what was done, i would put the account in joint names - atleast the money is available to use then. They will only look at the information right in front of them which will say the account is owned by both parents. Then if there are problems, exactly what Rick said above ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 With the account being joint his capital then effectively halves, moving the money from his name or gifting to family members / kids into trusts etc might be an option. It would seem that if you work hard to provide for you and your family you are entitled to nothing, where as if you had nothing you get everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Wouldn't it be prudent to look at getting your mother or you as power of attorney? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mark Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 Application for that was done yesterday Al. I just need to travel down and get all parties to sign it and get it posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burna Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 With the account being joint his capital then effectively halves, moving the money from his name or gifting to family members / kids into trusts etc might be an option. It would seem that if you work hard to provide for you and your family you are entitled to nothing, where as if you had nothing you get everything Im pretty sure that deliberately moving money around has to be done six months in advance. My Dad knows all about this as he was explaining it all to me a while back, I'll ask him for you what can be done, if anything Mark, if you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Im pretty sure that deliberately moving money around has to be done six months in advance. My Dad knows all about this as he was explaining it all to me a while back, I'll ask him for you what can be done, if anything Mark, if you want? Agreed, also if the person passes away within three years of gifting it to you its still liable for Inheritance tax, its a sad state of affairs that you have to plan this far ahead of your death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabella Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Yep pay tax on the money that's already been earned and taxed, after paying tax on the fuel/transport to get you to the workplace/business in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Yep pay tax on the money that's already been earned and taxed, after paying tax on the fuel/transport to get you to the workplace/business in the first place. I guess the idea being that you work all your life with the illusion of being rewarded, but in reality you leave as you entered, with nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mark Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 Im pretty sure that deliberately moving money around has to be done six months in advance. My Dad knows all about this as he was explaining it all to me a while back, I'll ask him for you what can be done, if anything Mark, if you want? Yes please Burna. I think doing the joint accounts thing technically is the best chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burna Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Yes please Burna. I think doing the joint accounts thing technically is the best chance. Ok mate I'll ask him when I see him, but definitely do the joint accounts asap. If it was me I would be phoning around trying to find a good solicitor who specialises in this sort of thing, and who is very good at using all the legal loop holes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Application for that was done yesterday Al. I just need to travel down and get all parties to sign it and get it posted. That's good. And in reference to your dad buying a car, it can still be classed as an asset so might not get the desired effect you are after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angarak Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Dont local authorities now have the power to sell your house to pay for your care? I dont know the ins and outs, but my old man recently setup a "Home/Asset Protection Trust" with myself and my brother as beneficiaries so his house is protected should he go in to care. Worth looking in to maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabella Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Dont local authorities now have the power to sell your house to pay for your care? I dont know the ins and outs, but my old man recently setup a "Home/Asset Protection Trust" with myself and my brother as beneficiaries so his house is protected should he go in to care. Worth looking in to maybe. /QUOTE] As long as his wife is in the house they cannot sell it. The trust thing is a v good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I've been looking into this recently due to my father. The moment he's diagnosed medically as having and dementia then any attempt to change or move money around will result in the authorities saying it's avoidance, he's got issues which may mean dementia in the future. It HAS to be done previous to diagnosis. I just got off the phone to him, he's looking at moving the house into a trust which will own it. They can't touch this. If your mother is living in the same house then they can't lay claim on that asset as it will mean turfing her out of her house. They may put him in substandard care however and you could have a fight to keep him in somewhere decent. It really pisses me off that people that have nothing get everything given to them. Anyone that's done OK for themselves and paid massively into the system over the years gets shafted when they really need the help. It's a difficult time, Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBDevelopments Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Isnt there something you can give a spouse or sibling a one time large tax free amount? Sure i saw that somewhere, would reduce his accests a chunk then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainhead Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Isnt there something you can give a spouse or sibling a one time large tax free amount? Sure i saw that somewhere, would reduce his accests a chunk then You can give around 3k tax free per year without investigation. I would transfer that sort of amount at least to a family member. you can also transfer smaller amounts £300/400 etc for things like day care for your farther. I.e you theoretically look after him for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mark Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 The house is safe as apparently he did a Deed or Trust when he did his will so it's already mine. The £3k gift is interstesting. If so then by splitting money into joint accounts and then a £3k gift from him then it should reduce things down to just below the threshold I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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