stevie_b Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 My W58 gearbox has had worn synchros for 1st and 2nd gear for several years now. It's not getting any worse, but I'd like to get it fixed. I also suspect the gearbox didn't have the easiest of lives before I owned the car (I remember Graham S on here giving it a service soon after I bought it, he changed the gearbox oil, and said it was better now because he can no longer hear the transmission whine!) I've been offered a W58 from an NA-T running 320bhp. It's claimed to be very low mileage (50,000 ish). I've got no way of verifying that. I believe the current owner drives the box relatively sympathetically. The box was used with a paddle clutch which is well worn. The box is said to have no faults, selects gears very well, no noises etc. I'm torn between getting my box refurbished, or taking a risk with the box from the NA-T. I don't know how much it'll cost to refurbish my box: 1st and 2nd synchros certainly need replacing, but there might be other parts too: bearings, etc. What's the chances of the NA-T box lasting well? Once the parts have survived the stresses of NA-T, do they tend to be reliable when it gets mated to a stock NA again? Or could there be stress fractures, that kind of thing, that are a time bomb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I'd get the NAt box. And keep yours in case that fails then you've a contingency anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Depends on a few things. Personally I think two w58s is better than one! A spare is always handy and you can always get the box rebuilt also you don't lose the use of the car while one box gets rebuilt. If it was a v160 I'd say different because of the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 A concern is availability of parts for a refurb. At the moment they're widely available, but for how long? If I get mine refurbed, it'll cost more, but with new internals it should outlast the car (I'll keep it as a stock NA, and I drive sympathetically). If I buy and fit the NA-T box and something lets go say 5 years later, I'd be left with 2 ropey W58s, and possibly no parts available to repair either of them. Time that the car's off the road isn't a concern: it's only an occasional toy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabella Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Buy the NA-T w58, stick it in, then get your box refurbed for when/if the other breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Buy the NA-T w58, stick it in, then get your box refurbed for when/if the other breaks. If I do that, I'm probably better off just refurbing my current one. I'd save myself £1k (by the time you factor in the purchase, courier, and fitting labour for the NA-T box), and not have a spare gearbox in storage somewhere (which my wife might not appreciate in the long term). It swings on whether the NA-T box is likely to be a time bomb or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 If I do that, I'm probably better off just refurbing my current one. I'd save myself £1k (by the time you factor in the purchase, courier, and fitting labour for the NA-T box), and not have a spare gearbox in storage somewhere (which my wife might not appreciate in the long term). It swings on whether the NA-T box is likely to be a time bomb or not. What's the cost of the box you've been offered vs a rebuild? If it's the case you don't need the car and the gearbox your offered is quite expensive then you're better off getting a rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 It'll be cheaper to buy and fit the NA-T box, but only if it lasts. Refurb costs are a big unknown: most refurbs don't change everything inside, that's big money to do that. They only change what's worn or broken, and you only really know what needs changing when it gets opened up. Best case scenario is that refurbing will cost about the same as buying/fitting the other box. Worst case, could be £2k-£3k more to refurb than to swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 If your staying NA then just refurbished yours. If you ever want horsepower don't even bother just upgrade. Because it's had a turbo on it doesn't mean it's a timebomb. Just means probably less reliable. It's personal opinion to which is worst from the two options. Never even heard of someone refurbish a w58 and I've been on the NAt scene a while. So I'd just want a new box. Stock or not. I'd not be investing into a gearbox that's known to be weak on hp and isn't highly valuable. Wait and get a non turbo w58 or do both. But don't waste 2k on any w58 setup. I sold my old r154 setup for 1200. Admittedly they are clunky boxes. But w58 don't invest in it. Refurbished is what, few hundred pounds? I don't see why a second box is mega bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the views, I appreciate it. My car will definitely be staying at stock NA power. £600-800 is the going rate for a used W58, depending on history of course. So that's the main cost of doing the swap. Then there's paying someone to swap it over for me, not a job I was intending on doing myself. I'm happy to do some spannering but I think that's beyond me, and I'd need a knowledgeable assistant to help me heave the box into place. I've been quoted £650 to take the old box off, and open it up to see what needs replacing. If I did that, I'd probably want to change the bearings as well. So with a few synchros and bearings, and labour to fit it all and bolt it back up, that'll probably come in around £1k. That's using a gearbox specialist, which seems the safest way to go given the complexity of these things. Edited June 7, 2016 by stevie_b (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martincoupe Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 If you bring the box to me I can open it up and tell you what needs doing I've had 5 w58s apart. Only takes 1 hour to remove box from car with a ramp then 1 hour to strip and another to rebuild it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 Hi Martin, Thanks for the offer. How much do you think it'll cost in parts to replace the 1st and 2nd gear synchros, and the bearings? I know almost nothing about gearboxes, and when I phoned Toyota for prices I got more questions than answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martincoupe Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 You can get a full synchro kit for about £200 then £200-£300 to fit. This is why most people buy another box as it's cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 You can get a full synchro kit for about £200 then £200-£300 to fit. This is why most people buy another box as it's cheaper /QUOTE] Where can you buy a synchro kit? Toyota don't sell them AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martincoupe Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Martin crawler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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