TuneR Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Its a VVTi tiptronic TT, its turning over fine so starter is good. It was running and driving prior to this but had issues starting occasionally. Plugs are dry, its not pumping as when i swapped pumps there was no fuel in the outlet hose. Im also getting spark. The starting issue was that it started fine when cold but after a drive and left for a little bit it wouldn't start for 30-60s. Best example was getting fuel; stop, fill, pay and then have starting issues. Things i've tried: -car has fuel. -car has charge as i trickle charge the battery whenever i try it. -checked the fuel pump and its getting correct voltage and showing good resistance. -took out fuel pump and tested it using a battery, all fine. -put old OEM pump back in. -checked for spark by placing plug in wire boot against strut brace. -no error codes either using paper clip method or on my Blitz iVit. Used to work fine and has been driven a bit but not regularly since over a year ago. Its been stored since then... Update on Post 21, seems a fuel injector/s is dodgy.... Edited July 26, 2018 by TuneR (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpro Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Are you 100% sure the fuel pump is priming when you are cranking the car? use a volt meter and make sure power is going to the pump when you are cranking the car. vacuum hoses shouldn't prevent the car from firing up, but can interfer with idle. Might sound stupid, but are the injectors pigtails plugged in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOGIE Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 check timing belt hasn't snapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Error codes, first off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
np89 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Timing star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuneR Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Are you 100% sure the fuel pump is priming when you are cranking the car? use a volt meter and make sure power is going to the pump when you are cranking the car. vacuum hoses shouldn't prevent the car from firing up, but can interfer with idle. Might sound stupid, but are the injectors pigtails plugged in? All plugged in fine, was making 12.4v when turning over to pump connector. check timing belt hasn't snapped. It's fine as I've the plug cover off. Error codes, first off. None. Timing star What's that? Crank pulley connection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s937717 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 What's that? Crank pulley connection? http://i.imgur.com/sBdnSPD.jpg This thing here, it's behind the crank harmonic balancer/pulley and likes to fall apart. If you have an oscilloscope, you can check the output of the crank sensor and that'll give you an idea of if the trigger wheel has gone bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOGIE Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 You said that your not getting spark. Igniter issue perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I'd agree with timing star as the first port of call. I'm having some horrendous starting issues at the moment where it's a total lottery on how the car behaves. Turns out it's a dodgy wire right at the main ECU harness connector leading (I think) to the crank sensor. I was mapping the car and had it running. Accidentally touched the ECU with my foot which was enough to move it and the car died due to no signal going to the crank sensor. So could maybe check for corroded wires as well if it's been sitting a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) check my last threads pal, had this on my aristo. check throttle body sensor and the throttle position bolt. everything you need is in my past threads..... http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?326974-Im-at-wits-end-with-my-Aristo!-hasnt-started-for-over-a-month-please-guys-help!!! http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?327599-GUIDE-VVTI-Misfire-Automatic-High-Rev-and-Idle-problem-SOLVED-Finally-Pics-att Edited March 25, 2016 by adnanshah247 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuneR Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 http://i.imgur.com/sBdnSPD.jpg This thing here, it's behind the crank harmonic balancer/pulley and likes to fall apart. If you have an oscilloscope, you can check the output of the crank sensor and that'll give you an idea of if the trigger wheel has gone bad. Err im not that advanced, im just a DIY guy. check my last threads pal, had this on my aristo. check throttle body sensor and the throttle position bolt. everything you need is in my past thread Cheers lad, ill use that to have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Bad info here, the VVTi cam trigger wheel (timing star) cannot come away from the belt pulley on a VVTi as it can on the none VVti engines. It's cast in one piece. Get some Easi Start or put some petrol in a spray bottle and squirt it directly into the throttle body with the big hose off whilst someone cranks the engine. Does it try to run? No? Look for a no spark issue. Yes? Look for a no fuel issue. Does it backfire? Look for the nearest burns unit A&E that's staffed and won't send you out worse than you go in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Bad info here, the VVTi cam trigger wheel (timing star) cannot come away from the belt pulley on a VVTi as it can on the none VVti engines. It's cast in one piece. Yup, after taking my entire front end apart i realised this lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuneR Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 So more info for you all to digest, timing looked fine so tested the bottle of petrol like CW said and it tried to start. Checked pump again, still getting 11v+. Took connector directly into pump and that was also showing same voltage. Decided to take outlet (to engine) fuel pipe off fuel pump hanger thingy and turn over with that. Nothing. I have had both (OEM and Walbro) pumps out and tested fine connected directly to power. Sooo its electrical i believe. Earth wire shows continuity to the chassis so i dont think its that. Is there another earth that might do this? Or else (which ill check next) could it be the HKS FCD having decided to go haywire and totally kill the fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Supes Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I don't think it's a faulty FCD. No fuel, spark or error codes would lead me to the ECU, personally. I would check over the wiring... even better (and a longshot), if a member local to you wouldn't mind swapping their VVTi over if would eliminate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The FCD won't affect pump power. Bridging FP and B+ in the under bonnet diagnostic box should run the pump continuously, if that works look to the fuel pump ECU in the LH rear wing. It may be faulty. You can bypass them, the info is all over the place. Then there's the possibility the ecu is not giving a run the pump signal..... Start by bridging FP and B+, don't short B+ to anything else though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuneR Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 I don't think it's a faulty FCD. No fuel, spark or error codes would lead me to the ECU, personally. I would check over the wiring... even better (and a longshot), if a member local to you wouldn't mind swapping their VVTi over if would eliminate it. I think id be at a loss for the ECU tbh, living in the middle of the country in Ireland where TT Supras are rare and tiptronic vvti even more so. I know of another (few years back) but i dont know where it is now... The FCD won't affect pump power. Bridging FP and B+ in the under bonnet diagnostic box should run the pump continuously, if that works look to the fuel pump ECU in the LH rear wing. It may be faulty. You can bypass them, the info is all over the place. Then there's the possibility the ecu is not giving a run the pump signal..... Start by bridging FP and B+, don't short B+ to anything else though!! No FP on the vvti's, ill bypass the fuel pump ecu using the "12v mod" and see if that works. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuneR Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 So the saga continues! If i run the + and - for the pump directly to a battery i can start the car and it seems to run fine. Like CW suggested above i did the 12v mod from mkiv.com as i thought this would sort it but no go, although there is now 11.5ish volts going to the pump but its not activating. So is the problem that there is something telling the pump not to turn on and if so what, the fuel pump ecu? Im tired, slightly hungover and now demoralised again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 This is what repair garages are for, to take the strain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuneR Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 This is what repair garages are for, to take the strain! Ya pity my local mechanic doesn't do electical work, i think there is someplace in limerick which is 40minutes drive away. Ill test more as i go before i do that, it'll just be slooow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuneR Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 Thread revival and yes i never fixed it properly until now, kind of. I have it sorted but using the fuel rail off my JZS161 Aristo, the reason for buying the aforementioned car was to fix the Supra but i got driving it and its so great for wafting about that i used it last year and a bit this year. Better mpg than the Supra but i assume thats due to me using the CC loads. Anyway back OT, as i said its kinda sorted. I have it narrowed down to the fuel rail and i suspect an injector/s rather than the regulator. I had the JZA injectors professionally cleaned when i was tiding up the engine bay back in 2016 so either they or my hamfistedness damaged one or a seal putting it back on. I have a new question, after i took out the fuel rail i saw all the bottom of the injectors were all dry on the JZS161 but on the JZA one was moist. Could this be a leaky injector or a seal? It explains the poor startup on warm vs cold; when warm there is too much fuel for the startup procedure so shes slightly flooded and when cold the fuel has evaporated and it starts fine. Injectors 1-5 all look like this 20180724_210707 by Gerard KK, on Flickr "Leaky" injector 6 (nearest fuel entry/firewall) 20180724_210701 by Gerard KK, on Flickr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 A fuel pressure gauge plumbed into the rail feed should show rail pressure being held for at least an few hours after switching a hot engine off. If it doesn't it's probably because an injector is leaking. An injector test on all six sounds like a good idea though, off the car. A leaky injector can do two things. Deplete line pressure that takes a while to build again when starting. leaves a lot of fuel in one cylinder confusing the ECU and O2 sensor(s) on cold start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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