j_jza80 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The only way you'd know for sure would be to find a sectioned caliper. Or you may be able to get some sort of cross section diagram from Brembo. And it does look like a bulky caliper in the first place, which can only help. But with things like this, you should definitely play it safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mark Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) I'd want a cross section diagram to be sure the areas I was grinding had enough meat on them, last thing you'd want to do is ruin a set of new callipers. Edited March 4, 2016 by Big Mark (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy52 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 A "little" update regarding the state of my car. Maybe I should start a build thread?. I'm chasing for some sort of cutaway imagery of these particular Brembo calipers. The guy who operates the SRT8 Facebook group that I bought them from, and Brembo themselves. Although I expect the Brembo enquiry went straight through their "not interested" filter.. A lot of major work was done by myself and mostly David over the last couple of years. Things like getting the gearbox replaced with a new hybrid auto, restoring the engine back to a state where it won't overheat or starve of oil. Get it running with all engine ECU errors gone! Rebuilt a custom made cold air intake that has no restrictions or heat soak. Many many MANY other important things that I would never have spotted alone. It takes an expert such as David to be able to spot problems as they come, think through the issue and implement a lasting soloution. I'm certain my car would've ended up being a breaking thread if not for him. After all the very important stuff was taken care of and the car was no longer primed to explode, it was onto what I originally asked him for help on. We took the Supra out for a good gearbox Supra Stick mapping session. Tailored auto gear shift timings and paddle shifting goodness. Also brought down my extremely hard to find Greddy rear spoiler from the high security wing of the house where no one goes.. The loft. That and the front bumper got a fresh spray of satin black as a temporary freshen up. My good wife had taken the kids to Russia for 2 weeks to the grandparents, so that gave us 2 weeks of guilt free wrench time on the Supra. Things like retro fitting the active front spoiler onto a manual switch, setting up the ride height on coilovers and fitting new suspension arms, and general mechanical/electrical fixes. All on my apparent ski slope driveway. Cups of tea, bacon breakfasts and bookmarked pages on Toyodiy.com later, I have a driveable Supra again! It's been a marathon, and I've thanked David before but it just doesn't seem enough. I've used garages as not everything can be done by us, and their time is expensive. If I had relied on garages to get the car to the running state it is now I probably wouldn't have got this far and be very broke indeed. My day job, I make video games as an animator. Not really related to rebuilding a car which I didn't plan on doing. But I like to think I've learnt a lot and can now have the confidence to do more on the car than I ever had done alone, and read Toyota's electrical manuals as bedtime stories to my kids This year is what I've been waiting for since buying the Supra. Custom wheels, glass out, wallet out, new colour respray. Finally!!! This one is a paint shop job, not a driveway job. The goal for my Supra has always been to be an enjoyable drive for roadtrips, and for it to look dam cool doing it. Wife might even start liking it when finished All that wouldn't have been possible without the extended help of Mr David P My thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdale Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Dunno what sort of pressure brakes run at but there must be somewhere that can pressure test them for you? Plenty of places that deal with hydraulics/plant servicing that could put them on a test rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 They did pressure test the brakes on the road, repeatedly. But they wouldn't be tested anywhere near thoroughly enough. The problem is that the brake manufacturers will have rigs that test a set of callipers for the equivalent of many years of use. That isnt something you cant test for on the road, or a few hours on a bench. IMO the problem is that the people who make these kits have used an unsuitable caliper/disc combination. Considering the cars these kits are 'designed' for, the kit is just too bulky to fit behind most wheels. Probably the best thing you can do Delboy, if you're going to persevere with this kit, is to regularly take the callipers off the car and give them a good look over for signs of cracking. That may not be easy depending on the material used to paint the callipers, but it is worthwhile. The ideal route would ne to change your wheels for some that a complete srt calliper will fit behind, but obvs that would involve a lot more cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy52 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks guys for your suggestions. I did have one of the wheels off recently fixing an ABS plug issue and had a look at the caliper whilst there. It would have to come off the hub to clearly see anything along the anchor point and the inner disc area, but the top shoulder surface that was reduced looks to be fine still. I am changing my wheels but staying 18". I'd rather have someone experienced check them to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Thank you for the thank you Mike. Because I've been under your Supra more than most, I hope that I am allowed to make a positive and sensible input to your thread. Whilst stationary with hand brake on and engine running, stand on the brake pedal as hard as you can, with both feet if you like and put your back into it. That will test them to the maximum pressure that the master cylinder could ever go to and which would be at least twice the pressure that you will ever give them whilst braking in the real World and if/when the calipers don't explode, they will have passed the test. In my opinion, the weakest link(s) currently in your braking system are the hard-line brake pipes at the 4 corners, as I advised you at the time these were what an MOT station would classify as an advisory and I cleaned them up with a little wire brush and blathered them in Copperslip, they certainly won't be any worse than they were, yet certainly not any better either. I know they're not pretty and shiny and/or on display and are not made of homo carbon sexual fibres and don't even have a single LED, yet I suggest that you fit some new ones before giving it my test. Edited January 18, 2017 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy52 Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Would make sense to upgrade the lines before doing the stationary pressure test by the sounds of it. I'll add it to the job list before it slips by again. Ta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 You could get a ready made bespoke Kunifer set from here. http://www.canleyclassics.com/brake-pipe-kits/ Or buy a brake pipe flaring tool kit and make them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I think a caliper gets tested a bit more thoroughly than that on equipment like a brake dynamometer, it would be put through braking simulations 1000's of times going through huge heat cycles before being sold to anyone Lots of videos like this showing how calipers discs pads etc are tested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Car is looking great and good on David for helping you. Hopefully this can be a discussion without people getting their knickers in a twist. I can't see any way to test the calipers other than sending back to brembo, but I doubt they would be interested tbh, for saftey I honestly think you are mad running them brakes. Better to buy different brakes or wheels that clear them withought chopping calipers up. This picture shows that's a huge amount of metal you removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlukey Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Build is looking great and hats off for people with the spirit to help out, but removing that amount of material from brake calipers is rediculously dangerous imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parry_10 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 They need to be put on a brake dyno. When i was at mclaren for a while the calipers pads and discs are mounted on the machine and put through various cycles for a few hours consistently. Sometimes a caliper was ok at first but then failed after some abuse with testing. And that was a brand new un touched caliper. You simply cant just press the brake pedal to test them. Imo you will have no way of properly testing them and no one would be interested anyway. Get some new wheels and buy another pair of calipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 A test rig would test the modified caliper mounts, that are apparently okay for everyone else who has this conversion. However, the fluid pressure from testing on a test rig would be no more than Mike could do himself on his gay drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parry_10 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) A test rig would test the modified caliper mounts, that are apparently okay for everyone else who has this conversion. However, the fluid pressure from testing on a test rig would be no more than Mike could do himself on his gay drive. Why do you think all the money is spent on test dynos? You think its just for show? I just cant believe you actually think a perfectly fine was of testing a brake caliper that has had chunks taken out of it is by pushing the brake pedal. Crazy. Edited January 18, 2017 by Parry_10 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I was thinking more about this the other day and you do have a significant force going through the caliper mounting bolts but also re the "every force has an equal and opposite force" part of physics when you press on the brakes you will have a force equal to the clamping force trying to 'open' the calliper out and hence the meat over the top of the calliper is important to provide the strength to cope with this. Again 'fatigue' comes into this, you can stamp on the pedal for years and then one day it might break even though the force is the same or even less than a maximum one off press. It's an interesting phenomena think of a paper clip type wire put it in a vice and bend it up and down 45 degrees and it'll break at some point with no extra force than the first bend, reduce the thickness of the wire and it'll last less time. It's more complicated because if you only ever moved it say 5 degrees up and down it may never break, 20 degrees and it might take 1000's of cycles to break, so a combination of force/deflection and number of cycles determines it. Less meat on the calliper will mean more deflection (miniscule deflection but it's there) whether this takes it into the millions, thousands of cycles til failure who knows, it may even just stay in the never fail region, but as others keep saying you can't know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 How thick is the bridge section now ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 That s a good find dunk, Is that one of the brembo srt8 callipers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parry_10 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 How thick is the bridge section now ? Considering its had 13mm shaved off that doesnt look promising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazuk Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Car is looking great and good on David for helping you. Hopefully this can be a discussion without people getting their knickers in a twist. I can't see any way to test the calipers other than sending back to brembo, but I doubt they would be interested tbh, for saftey I honestly think you are mad running them brakes. Better to buy different brakes or wheels that clear them withought chopping calipers up. This picture shows that's a huge amount of metal you removed. That is a crazy amount sod that! I was half tempted by the srt8 kit but the fact you have to chop a lump out the main bracket puts me off as it is plus I found out the brackets made by this bloke in America the bracket is not 100% and you have to use a washer to space them id rather have stock UK's or KSport . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy52 Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Plenty of advice and opinions, thanks guys. I am concerned about the brakes so won't sit and do nothing. We followed a 10 page or so installation guide that has been completed many times before us. It indicates the points to alter and how to mount everything up. We did take a bit more material than normal on the shoulders where that area is especially thick, and still is even after modification. I'll get around to measuring the current shoulder thickness on mine which I recall to be in the region of 10-15mm after modification from memory. Been speaking with Peter recently from the Facebook SRT group about this dilemma. He said that so far no one has reported a failure. Shaving calipers has been done for years, although the claim doesn't state if that's done on a race car that gets one use of the caliper, or a road car that lasts over 20 years. The shoulders on the Brembo SRT calipers are very thick to begin with. Which could possibly be an asthetic trait rather than a stuctural one when compared to many other designs. Only Brembo would know that though. Been trying to get a cutaway for these calipers to show fluid passages and structure. The Corvette ZR1 cutaway in Dnk's example shows the brake fluid appears to stay in the piston area, which we didn't touch on mine. That test rig looks like a one way ticket for the caliper being tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mark Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) As you know Mike I've got the same brakes waiting to go on my car and I showed a colleague that used to work for Alcon the brakes so could work out fluid pathway. These are single piece cast calipers, so he believes that the fluid paths are drilled down from where bleed nipples are down through each of the piston areas, they are also drilled across the bottom and plugged on the entry point and finally drilled (somehow) at an angle to join the bottom to the sides so that the fluid has a effectively a "U" shape to run in with the bleed nipples at each end of the "U". The issue tho is that the pathway across the bottom is exactly where has been ground. If you look at the pic the black line is a fluid pathway. Edited January 19, 2017 by Big Mark (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitbox Junkie Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 These SRT8 Kits don't they come already shaven if not why is that? If there's a horrible iccedent and it's down to these breaks and they supplied the kit with it shaven they would be in a lot of trouble? I hope you find some answers for the whole is it safe etc but it's your car so good luck they do look great I just hope they are safe and won't be the cause of any accident that may hurt others or yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy52 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Well it looks like the gods have spoken (Work Wheels Japan) and made the decision for me. The Brembo brakes I have won't fit under the 18" custom wheels I've ordered unless I go 19". The whole point of shaping these brakes to the degree they are is to stay 18". So, looks like I'm going to have to revert to 356mm Ksports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evinX Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 UK spec callipers ftw! Ill be doing this eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.