Any AV geeks on here?

[Supragal]

I'm having a struggle with my home cinema setup, the AV forum I use is a bit ghost town like, so I figure it's worth an ask on here too.

 

Any offers for potential help before I start babbling away about it?

 

(Sod off Burna, before you say anything!!)

[Big Mark]

Turn your hearing aid down?

[Supragal]

Turn your hearing aid down?

 

I only do that when I'm bored of your sh1t chat

[Burna]

(Sod off Burna, before you say anything!!)

 

How rude!

 

Oh and never go A to V, unless super clean

[drift_bear]

How rude!

 

Oh and never go A to V, unless super clean

 

[Scott]

Depends what sort of level of AV geek you are after but I do like my gadgets. Money is the thing that stops me going super geek

[Big Mark]

How rude!

 

Oh and never go A to V, unless super clean

 

[Tricky-Ricky]

I think you need to be more specific...before this degrades into something even more off topic.

[Supragal]

Trust Burna. I'd bet a fortune that you have!!

 

Anyway, so I'm having issues with my set-up in that some sound ranges are just not right.

 

1) There is a section somewhere midrange that is lacking/weak

2) Low end bass is horrendous, boomy as hell

 

I am confident that the basic setup is OK, and I've played about with adjustments but not made any improvement in the problem areas, it's just tweaked the overall sound. The Audyssey mic doesn't pick up my sub - this may be part of the problem (as in, if it did maybe it would regulate it better) but I'm stumped as to why it doesn't, or how to get it to.

 

I suspect that the boomy bass may be down to the actual room itself, but there must be adjustments possible to make it work better.

 

I've got as far as establishing that perhaps better test equipment is needed i.e. to take readings of the output and use that to identify which frequency ranges are lacking/too much (I assume they'll show pretty clearly on a graph?) but I'm still not sure at that point how to improve it. e.g. if everything between 20-30hz is a problem, how can I actually fix that?

However - I don't have any of this test gear.

 

Anyone had similar issues, or understand it all better than I do?

 

System is:

AVR : Onkyo TX-SR875

BDP: Pana BDT-500

Speakers: Jamo D600 (3 x LCR, 2 x SUR)

Sub: Jamo D7

 

AVR is handling sound and video via HDMI, and is set to THX crossover points.

[Tricky-Ricky]

I always end up recalibrating by ear, rather than using the Audyssey calibration, it seems to have trouble with any room that not dead square, also flooring and furnishings will have a big impact on the sound, where abouts is your sub positioned? this can have a big effect also, along with its setup?

 

All the guides etc always tell you to run everything at 0 tone etc but I never have, because of all rooms are different, you will undoubtedly end up having to boost certain frequency's in order to avoid holes in the sound, I always end up turning up the center speaker as a lot of the time I struggle to hear dialog if listening at reasonable levels where I don't upset the neighbors.

[Supragal]

Yup, I did the same - did the basic setup then adjusted myself. However, as it's never picked up the sub it makes me wonder if it would have done it better? That said, there really isn't much control for it - just set the crossover point. Right?

[Annabella]

What Tricky said really, this week manually increased the treble two notches as was difficult to hear dialogue (cant remember what I was watching, might have been this weeks crap X-files episode). Try moving your sub somewhere else? Is there another way of plugging the sub into your amp?

When I was at a certain hifi company a while back the geek there did mention something about using different make of speakers can cause differences in frequency etc. Not sure I was with him on that as every different part of mine is a different make besides Amp and Sub (and that would mean I'd have to buy lots of kit again )

[Tricky-Ricky]

Yup, I did the same - did the basic setup then adjusted myself. However, as it's never picked up the sub it makes me wonder if it would have done it better? That said, there really isn't much control for it - just set the crossover point. Right?

 

What have you got the volume and crossover set at? if its in a corner that will make it much more boomy, and you can always revers the phase which sometimes helps, the lack of, you have got your main speakers set to small in the amp menu I take it?

And it could just be a mismatch of speakers to the amp, some just don't like each other and done perform well, try adjusting the equalizer on the amp.

[Burna]

Trust Burna. I'd bet a fortune that you have!!

 

Of course! lol

 

Might be worth pointing out in this thread Rosie the things that have changed since having this problem like we discussed on the phone last night. It might help people in the thread with more knowledge than you and I get to the bottom of it, because I'm stumped :/

[Supragal]

Thanks guys.

 

yeah I tried moving the sub around (but am limited by cables) but didn't notice any difference. Plus it's a 2 person job, so not that easy to facilitate.

 

Crossovers are set to THX reference level and yes, mains set to small. I don't think it's a problem in this area, as it's just super low bass that is the issue.

 

Sub is connected via direct in, which bypasses phase and frequency controls on the sub. That is the recommended setting when using with an AVR. I did swap it to use the boundary gain in, rather than direct, but again didn't seem to make any difference. Maybe I should play about with this more, but to be honest without testing kit it's difficult!

 

I also agree that it might just be the AVR/SUB combo - but that's something I can't really test easily!!

 

Annabella - I agree with you, matching by make is not a valid argument. Some manufacturers don't make the whole range. I agree to an extent about mixing speakers from different sets however.

[Supragal]

Of course! lol

 

Might be worth pointing out in this thread Rosie the things that have changed since having this problem like we discussed on the phone last night. It might help people in the thread with more knowledge than you and I get to the bottom of it, because I'm stumped :/

 

Everything has changed except the sub, that is the only original bit of kit I have from previous setups - so I know how awesome it CAN sound, it just isn't right now!

[Hitbox Junkie]

You could extend the cables of the sub to move it around more. Other wise it's might just be the room?

[Frank Bullitt]

Pictures of the set-up would be good to get an idea of positioning of the speakers and also to see how reflective the room is.

 

You keep mentioning the crossovers are to THX reference levels. What are the crossovers for the speakers set to?

 

What is the crossover of the sub set to?

 

How is the sub wired to the AVR?

 

What is the channel level for the sub set to on the AVR?

 

Can you set the volume on the sub? If so, what is it set to?

 

Where is the sub positioned?

 

Have you tried the sub crawl?

 

Have you tried an isolation pad for the sub?

[Supragal]

You could extend the cables of the sub to move it around more. Other wise it's might just be the room?

 

I don't have a longer phono lead! But even so, it can't just be anywhere, right? Like, I can't have it in the middle of the room, it has to be somewhere sensible

[Supragal]

Answers in line!

 

Windows and door are Optithon glass. Opposite the door is another room, so it's like a big L shape, through the square arch.

 

Pictures of the set-up would be good to get an idea of positioning of the speakers and also to see how reflective the room is.

 

OK!

 

 

 

 

 

 

How is the sub wired to the AVR? Phono, direct in

 

What is the crossover of the sub set to on the AVR? THX reference level, which is 80Hz

 

What is the volume set to of the sub one the AVR?

Ummm I'm not sure what you mean?

 

Can you set the volume on the sub?

Kind of. It's on THX reference level, which is basically midpoint. Tried adjusting it to no avail, but I think in direct mode it is bypassed

 

Where is the sub positioned?

 

Have you tried the sub crawl?

Not so much, because I can't get my sub to where my sofa is. I have done a version of it, to try to find a spot where it sounds OK from where it is, but that hasn't helped either. Maybe I need to invest more time in this, with a really long cable.

 

You keep mentioning the crossovers are to THX reference levels. What are they set to?

THX reference level is 80Hz

[Tricky-Ricky]

What Frank means is there a separate level control on the amp for each separate speaker and sub? I would turn off the THX on the sub at least and set the cut off and volume at mid point and adjust from there on the amps menu, sounds to me like the volume is to high along with too high a cut off point, that's a goo recipe for boom.

[Frank Bullitt]

First things first, that is a lovely looking set up you have there

 

I can't see anything in the room that should cause reflection & the positioning of the sub is fine. It certainly shouldn't be behind you if you can help it, by having it in front it helps the bass mix with the sound from the speakers. You could possibly look at moving it further away from the wall and further into the room. I would almost certainly look at adding an isolation pad (make one if you are DIY friendly) to sit the sub on or add some feet if you have this option? I have both on mine and it's certainly "cleaned" up the bass as less traveled into the floor.

 

Does the system (AVR) ever have trouble recognising the sub when you first switch it on? i.e when it wakes from "sleep mode" or is it just Audyssey that doesn't recognise the sub? Have you tried using a Y splitter to see if that makes any difference?

 

With all 5 speakers set to small on the AVR and at 80Hz that seems okay. The subwoofer mode on the AVR should be set LFE and LPF for LFE set to 120Hz.

 

The Subwoofer should have a volume setting option within the AVR, this needs to be set at 0. Any volume increase should be done from the subwoofer.

 

I wouldn't look at doing the sub crawl, as mentioned above just move it further away from the wall and into the room more.

[Supragal]

What Frank means is there a separate level control on the amp for each separate speaker and sub? I would turn off the THX on the sub at least and set the cut off and volume at mid point and adjust from there on the amps menu, sounds to me like the volume is to high along with too high a cut off point, that's a goo recipe for boom.

 

You mean as in change it from direct in to boundary gain comp in?

[Supragal]

First things first, that is a lovely looking set up you have there

 

I can't see anything in the room that should cause reflection & the positioning of the sub is fine. It certainly shouldn't be behind you if you can help it, by having it in front it helps the bass mix with the sound from the speakers. You could possibly look at moving it further away from the wall and further into the room. I would almost certainly look at adding an isolation pad (make one if you are DIY friendly) to sit the sub on or add some feet if you have this option? I have both on mine and it's certainly "cleaned" up the bass as less traveled into the floor.

 

Does the system (AVR) ever have trouble recognising the sub when you first switch it on? i.e when it wakes from "sleep mode" or is it just Audyssey that doesn't recognise the sub? Have you tried using a Y splitter to see if that makes any difference?

 

With all 5 speakers set to small on the AVR and at 80Hz that seems okay. The subwoofer mode on the AVR should be set LFE and LPF for LFE set to 120Hz.

 

The Subwoofer should have a volume setting option within the AVR, this needs to be set at 0. Any volume increase should be done from the subwoofer.

 

I wouldn't look at doing the sub crawl, as mentioned above just move it further away from the wall and into the room more.

 

Thanks, it's getting there...

 

I did move it further out (the cable allows me some flexibility there) but couldn't notice a difference.

 

Sub has feet, I'll look into an isolation pad although honestly, if you could hear it I think you'd agree that it's more than fine tuning :S

 

Nope, AVR always outputs to sub OK in the "real" world, just not Audyssey. Not sure I'm understanding why a Y splitter would help? As in, bridge between direct and boundary gain?

 

I'll check the AVR settings later, I'm sure they are right but again set to THX. If I change it to 120Hz, then surely that means the 80-120Hz range isn't going anywhere?

[Frank Bullitt]

Here is a link to the isolation pads I was speaking about - http://explore.dolphinmusic.co.uk/search?p=Q&w=auralex+subdude As I said if you are DIY friendly they can be made for a lot less

 

The Y splitter attaches to the end of the phono cable turning the connection into 2 rather than 1, changing it from Mono to Stereo.

 

In the days of stereo you would normally hook up a preout to a powered sub and would adjust the crossover and level for both. Most subs at the time did not have signal detection to tell if a stereo or mono signal was used and the low pass filter would send both low freq signals to a buffer and the sub would amplify in mono. This would also allow independent subs for left and right channels, until Pro Logic and DD were created/developed.

 

Where a down mix was needed to perform base management vs. running 6 channels of preout to a sub the receiver did the work and one connection to the sub was all that was needed.

 

It *may* solve the Audyssey not recognising the sub, again I find this strange. Silly question but I will ask anyway, was the sub switched on?

 

Also in the nicest possible way I wouldn't get too hung up on the THX thing either, it's cack! Like a lot of equipment your AVR isn't THX certified either

 

Looking at the photo of your sub again the settings I can see seem to all the way to one side, am I seeing this right?