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It seems there has been a storming of the border gates on the Macedonia / Greece border just now:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-greece-macedonia-idUSKCN0W2188

 

Hopefully they will be firing live rounds instead of tear gas soon. What a dodgy looking bunch of

thugs we have heading across Europe to Germany and Austria

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However there are real and compelling reasons to stay

 

Demographics of the UK in the future

The Contribution from migrants to tax payments

The REAL cost of immigration on benefits

The legal benefits of EU control over these crazy conservatives

Free trade agreements

Cultural integration

Farming subsidies - reducing costs (you think the conservatives will give the farmers the same - not on your nelly)

Scotland staying (who else ill we have to invade?)

 

(

 

You think!

 

Demographics of the UK in the future With the removal of the foreign youth the UK will return to a more balanced age demographic

The Contribution from migrants to tax payments How does that help, all foreign workers do is transfer money from UK employers to the UK exchequer when they pay taxes yet some of the money they keep gets sent back to Romgariary to renovate their houses over there. That's money that's leaving the UK economy forever.

The REAL cost of immigration on benefits Any benefit payed to a non-UK national is a drain on the benefits system. I have worked abroad for a good part of my life and have never been entitled to benefits funded by the country I was working in.

The legal benefits of EU control over these crazy conservatives How can anyone accept control of our government by a parliament elected by foreigners?

Free trade agreements We had them before imprisonment in Europe, we'll have them again afterwards. Difference is they'll be negotiated entirely in the interest of the UK (and we won't have to buy French apples).

Cultural integration How is that an advantage, we have our own individual culture and should fight to keep it.

Farming subsidies - reducing costs (you think the conservatives will give the farmers the same - not on your nelly) We pay more to the EU than we receive in subsidies, it should be easy enough for any government to match the current level of support.

Scotland staying (who else ill we have to invade?) Scotland won't benefit from leaving the UK to join the EU alone. The minority of Scots are always complaining about control from Westminster, how do you think their majority that voted in favour of government from Westminster will feel about control from Brussels?

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I've read that Germany and the other main EU economies are prepared to impose huge trade taxes on Britain for leaving. I've a feeling that's a bluff as they'd not run a risk of the UK finding other trading partners, however, you really have to question the mentality of that threat in the first place.

 

 

BREXIT conditions will be as much a test of the image the EU wants to paint of itself as of Britain. The EU has a net trade surplus with Britain of $100bn per year, so it would have to be quite determined to cut off its nose to spite its face to impose harsh exit conditions on the UK, which then calls into question whether it was intended as a friendly union or a takeover in the first place.

 

 

This isn't just a question on whether things are tolerable now, it's a question of whether things will be tolerable in the future. We're one of the most densely populated countries there is and a small island to boot. We can't plan infrastructure to a population figure that's constantly moving. The EU as it stands now is not in any way stagnant by any means either. With recent pushes for Turkey to join, Britain could have a virtual border with Iraq and Syria. We know how well that's been policed as of late. As time goes by immigration will increase and the people who vote in referendums like these will be less and less British as a whole, making it more and more difficult for us to get ourselves out of this mess. Maybe Britain out of the EU will be tough, but Britain in the EU will be impossible.

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I've read that Germany and the other main EU economies are prepared to impose huge trade taxes on Britain for leaving. I've a feeling that's a bluff as they'd not run a risk of the UK finding other trading partners, however, you really have to question the mentality of that threat in the first place.

 

 

BREXIT conditions will be as much a test of the image the EU wants to paint of itself as of Britain. The EU has a net trade surplus with Britain of $100bn per year, so it would have to be quite determined to cut off its nose to spite its face to impose harsh exit conditions on the UK, which then calls into question whether it was intended as a friendly union or a takeover in the first place.

 

The warnings from EU leaders about Brexit do seem like Cameron drumming up some support for his point of view. Cameron wants us to stay, the other EU leaders want us to stay, so they'll naturally make propaganda about bad things happening if we leave. Very difficult to know what to believe.

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The EU has a very dangerous balancing act to play if we do leave. On the one hand, the EU will want to discourage other nations from going. But if they are too harsh it will just encourage other countries to leave, plus the German and French industries that are so dependent on UK customers have a lot of lobbying power both at home and in the EU.

 

But whatever the economic cost, personally I can't prioritise economic prosperity over national democracy and accountability. We were given these things by people who had to fight and die to keep them, I don't think we have any right to just give them away.

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Well said.

I just hope that the general public can see through all the fear mongering and bring it down to a simple core issue about if our individual voting right (which as we should all accept that our previous generations fought hard for), on the 5-year term UK government election day, is to count for anything in the future. Because it won't count for Jack Schmidt if we are just a state of the EU.

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The EU has a very dangerous balancing act to play if we do leave. On the one hand, the EU will want to discourage other nations from going. But if they are too harsh it will just encourage other countries to leave, plus the German and French industries that are so dependent on UK customers have a lot of lobbying power both at home and in the EU.

 

But whatever the economic cost, personally I can't prioritise economic prosperity over national democracy and accountability. We were given these things by people who had to fight and die to keep them, I don't think we have any right to just give them away.

 

Well said :)

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I now find it laughable that the French are threatening us.

 

I don't, when you realise how much money from the UK goes towards helping out French farmers and France it makes perfect sense to use scaremonger tactics. When they threatened taking the French boarder control away from the Channel Tunnel our response should have been, no problem we will blow it up. Worst days work they did building that bloody thing!

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You think!

 

Demographics of the UK in the future With the removal of the foreign youth the UK will return to a more balanced age demographic

The Contribution from migrants to tax payments How does that help, all foreign workers do is transfer money from UK employers to the UK exchequer when they pay taxes yet some of the money they keep gets sent back to Romgariary to renovate their houses over there. That's money that's leaving the UK economy forever.

The REAL cost of immigration on benefits Any benefit payed to a non-UK national is a drain on the benefits system. I have worked abroad for a good part of my life and have never been entitled to benefits funded by the country I was working in.

The legal benefits of EU control over these crazy conservatives How can anyone accept control of our government by a parliament elected by foreigners?

Free trade agreements We had them before imprisonment in Europe, we'll have them again afterwards. Difference is they'll be negotiated entirely in the interest of the UK (and we won't have to buy French apples).

Cultural integration How is that an advantage, we have our own individual culture and should fight to keep it.

Farming subsidies - reducing costs (you think the conservatives will give the farmers the same - not on your nelly) We pay more to the EU than we receive in subsidies, it should be easy enough for any government to match the current level of support.

Scotland staying (who else ill we have to invade?) Scotland won't benefit from leaving the UK to join the EU alone. The minority of Scots are always complaining about control from Westminster, how do you think their majority that voted in favour of government from Westminster will feel about control from Brussels?

 

Agree with all bar from "cultural integration" - the key word here is integration - provided we have that then cultural integration is a wonderful asset to the society, the country & to the world.

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'Time' person of the year also....

 

I've always maintained a strong pro refugee stance, and still do, it is like you've pointed out the mismanagement of the situation that has done it for me.

 

When volunteers and expats and local Greeks are bearing the responsibility for pulling dead people out of the sea, the EU has failed.

 

That's my personal reason for voting out ahead of economic and financial reasons, but those do come into it also.

 

Like you I am pro humanitarian too

 

With regards to Refugees - I believe the UK can do a much better job in that respect. Merkel and her EU chums have proven what a bunch of incompetent buffoons they actually are.

 

The EU has been a failure for the past 20 years; I am surprised when I see people that believe that the future will be different when the corrupt system remains unchanged.

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Exactly. Frau Merkel unilaterally handed out an invite to refugees, and the economic migrants saw it as a green light. She then tried to inflict forced quotas on all the EU countries, which she had no right to do. And now, because of her reckless actions, the Greeks are suffering, and the solution is to close the gates and make them deal with it.

 

I'm baffled by how she is able to keep her job. I wonder how many genuine refugees have either died or ended up in slavery by the traffickers, thanks to her irresponsible rhetoric?

 

parking the refugees crisis aside for the moment - what happened to the Greek debt & "lack of" economy situation, no one seems to be talking about that anymore?

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