stevie_b Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Still not going to happen. Ever. /QUOTE] Did you and Al specify a time limit for the bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Did you and Al specify a time limit for the bet? No. It'll probably go on until one of us is too old to remember, or the world ends. So you'll be taking all those other £20 bets then, or er just the one I've taken another couple from two colleagues at work. I don't want to be greedy. (edit, I also know and have met Al, so I'd like to think we'd both honour the bet). I disagree. But I don't think Brexit will be everything many leave voters wanted. I suspect they will fudge a trade deal, and free movement will remain, albeit with some superficial amendment to sell it as reform. It's already nothing very many of them voted for. Broken promises, no actual brexit etc. Farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 There was no promise and no guarantee. The leave campaign weren't a party, weren't leaders of this country. It wasn't up to them to start Brexit, implement it or keep it up to speed. That's our governments job. A job which May has said will happen. Brexit is happening, without a doubt. Not doing it will hurt our market even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 No. It'll probably go on until one of us is too old to remember, or the world ends. I've taken another couple from two colleagues at work. I don't want to be greedy. (edit, I also know and have met Al, so I'd like to think we'd both honour the bet). Or until we Brexit and you cough up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Or until we Brexit and you cough up /QUOTE] I'll definitely honour it if it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 What trade with the commonwealth? Oh wait we used to do that! Yes it does free up things like that, why people got so annoyed at the doom mongering from the remain campaign. The fear mongering is strong... to put things into perspective, so far we have voted out and nothing has actually changed in terms of trade. Yet the pound took a dive and started coming back up. So far the only real winners have been the stock traders in this. The fear mongering implies that we as a nation are not able to survive without Europe's aid and that alone I personally find as an insult to the countries ability as a nation. Having travelled many countries around the world and currently now residing in the UAE, all these countries are outside of Europe and blossoming as ever. An they don't need large sums of money to be part of a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 The fear mongering implies that we as a nation are not able to survive without Europe's aid and that alone I personally find as an insult to the countries ability as a nation. It's not that we wouldn't be able to survive outside of the EU: it's that we wouldn't be as prosperous. The EU has given us hassle-free cheap trading with 740 million people. Part of Remain's argument was that this would be hard to continue after Brexit, and hard to replace with something else. Maybe it'll get replaced with something less economically juicy. Time will tell, much depends on how good the UK is at doing business with the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 It's not that we wouldn't be able to survive outside of the EU: it's that we wouldn't be as prosperous. The EU has given us hassle-free cheap trading with 740 million people. Part of Remain's argument was that this would be hard to continue after Brexit, and hard to replace with something else. Maybe it'll get replaced with something less economically juicy. Time will tell, much depends on how good the UK is at doing business with the rest of the world. Reverse that. It's also given 740 million people the opportunity to trade with us. In these times of austerity, would they want to impose sanctions or fees on trading with the UK at the risk of their own economies? I doubt it. Any countries' government that do this would lose significant amounts of political capital, which is the most valuable resource in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 It's not that we wouldn't be able to survive outside of the EU: it's that we wouldn't be as prosperous. The EU has given us hassle-free cheap trading with 740 million people. Playing it fast and loose with the term hassle free the reason we left the EU is because it was/is an enormous hassle. I doubt many leave voters expected greater prosperity. I thought being slightly less well off, in exchange for proper national democracy and accountability, was a price worth paying, and I still do. All eyes should be on France now, unless some form of coalition is formed, I doubt anyone can challenge Le Pen now. Either way, French politics is taking a lurch to the right over the next year, and some if that will manifest itself as EUscepticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 It's not that we wouldn't be able to survive outside of the EU: it's that we wouldn't be as prosperous. The EU has given us hassle-free cheap trading with 740 million people. Part of Remain's argument was that this would be hard to continue after Brexit, and hard to replace with something else. Maybe it'll get replaced with something less economically juicy. Time will tell, much depends on how good the UK is at doing business with the rest of the world. Reverse that. It's also given 740 million people the opportunity to trade with us. In these times of austerity, would they want to impose sanctions or fees on trading with the UK at the risk of their own economies? I doubt it. Any countries' government that do this would lose significant amounts of political capital, which is the most valuable resource in the world. Pretty much as JG says, for example if someone was selling us 50 million GBP of chicken each week and now we are out of the EU, will they really just stop trading with us? Likewise if the shoe was on the other food and we had a customer in France who we was selling 50 million GBP of chickens and they decided to bail out of the EU, would we just be fine with that? If anything we would be worried as Australia could offer the same product for say 30 million, we would no longer be protected by the EU which enforces the trade within the EU and limits the trade from outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Reverse that. It's also given 740 million people the opportunity to trade with us. In these times of austerity, would they want to impose sanctions or fees on trading with the UK at the risk of their own economies? I doubt it. Any countries' government that do this would lose significant amounts of political capital, which is the most valuable resource in the world. It depends how much Juncker, Merkel, etc value the EU "project" over economic prosperity. In the same way that j_jza80 said that being slightly less well off is a price worth paying for democracy and accountability, the remaining EU states might decide that being less well off is a price they're willing to pay to preserve the EU. If other countries see the Uk leave and not noticably suffer, they might also want to leave, and I think the EU leaders will do everything they can to make sure that doesn't happen. Pretty much as JG says, for example if someone was selling us 50 million GBP of chicken each week and now we are out of the EU, will they really just stop trading with us? Likewise if the shoe was on the other food and we had a customer in France who we was selling 50 million GBP of chickens and they decided to bail out of the EU, would we just be fine with that? If anything we would be worried as Australia could offer the same product for say 30 million, we would no longer be protected by the EU which enforces the trade within the EU and limits the trade from outside. They wouldn't stop trading with us altogether. The volume of trade might decrease though. To use your example, the chickens would be hit with import duty when they enter the UK. This would make it more expensive for the UK consumer, so the UK might buy some of their chickens from other countries. (Import duty might still be charged, unless we have a trade deal). If we're selling chickens to Frexited France, we might we worried that we'd lose 60 million consumers (if all the French trade dried up). But we'd still have the rest of the EU we can sell to at prices that non-EU countries find it hard to compete with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 It depends how much Juncker, Merkel, etc value the EU "project" over economic prosperity. In the same way that j_jza80 said that being slightly less well off is a price worth paying for democracy and accountability, the remaining EU states might decide that being less well off is a price they're willing to pay to preserve the EU. If other countries see the Uk leave and not noticably suffer, they might also want to leave, and I think the EU leaders will do everything they can to make sure that doesn't happen. They wouldn't stop trading with us altogether. The volume of trade might decrease though. To use your example, the chickens would be hit with import duty when they enter the UK. This would make it more expensive for the UK consumer, so the UK might buy some of their chickens from other countries. (Import duty might still be charged, unless we have a trade deal). If we're selling chickens to Frexited France, we might we worried that we'd lose 60 million consumers (if all the French trade dried up). But we'd still have the rest of the EU we can sell to at prices that non-EU countries find it hard to compete with. I'm sure I read somewhere the UK is a net importer, so perhaps if we did have higher fees to pay then we'd be more likely to encourage growth within the UK. This could be a case of making more of what we have rather than buying in, ultimately growing our economy. Who knows for sure, all I do know is decision has been made, it certainly looks like 'leaving' is the will of the people so we should get behind it and make Britain great again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 It depends how much Juncker, Merkel, etc value the EU "project" over economic prosperity. In the same way that j_jza80 said that being slightly less well off is a price worth paying for democracy and accountability, the remaining EU states might decide that being less well off is a price they're willing to pay to preserve the EU. If other countries see the Uk leave and not noticably suffer, they might also want to leave, and I think the EU leaders will do everything they can to make sure that doesn't happen. . That is exactly how the EU Commission will respond. The Parliament will be a mixed bag, but the EU council, made up of the heads of member states, won't agree to that. I expect vindictiveness from the EU itself, but now we will find out which countries are really our friends and allies. It has been a somewhat heartwarming contrast to see the other members of our Commonwealth and Anglosphere family of nations rush to our aid with offers of assistance and trade. These are our true friends in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 It has been a somewhat heartwarming contrast to see the other members of our Commonwealth and Anglosphere family of nations rush to our aid with offers of assistance and trade. These are our true friends in the world There may be a little of that, but I suspect saving/making money is a bigger factor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I think the fact we've been kept in the block for 40 years whilst the rest of the world has had to take a back seat with trading with specific countries, that is leaving creates a whole new world and access for everyone. Suddenly a big game player is available, and a player that will still have access to the "single market" without too much infringement. We are about to become a very popular trading country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I voted to remain. I used to work with counterparts in education in many different European countries and visited France Germany etc a couple of times each year. The benefits were many. I am now in agriculture and the regulations from the Eu are often frustrating but I would still prefer to be in the eu. We are going to leave so that's the end of it (maybe) but many people voted based on untruths from both arguments. But already the leave side have started to readjust their arguments. David davis said that we will get both migration control and free trade. No question. But now he is already considering the what if we can't get that agreement. His new word is we might be able to agree a "suspension" of migration in times of a high input. Others are saying once we know the facts about what can be agreed then perhaps the population should be asked again. "This is what we've achieved do you still want to leave" after all we all change our minds in the face of new information that may not be what we previously knew. That's natural. Only lemmings throw themselves off a cliff even when they know it will hurt. Good Judgement is based the best information at the time of decision. I can live with leaving but many people may find its not what they expected. If there is an outside chance of staying I would be happy. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 May gave a cracking first prime minister's question time in the Commons just now, she has left the pundits reeling with her humorously aggressive tone and confidence, one even questioned whether someone had slipped something in her tea She gives me confidence that she will either get on with Merkel this afternoon or at least not be intimidated if things turn sour. Well done Theresa! Brexit is looking to be in strong hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36901027 Although we'll see how this pans out: Especially because despite a series of high profile investments in the UK since the referendum, recent economic surveys have pointed to a decline in business confidence. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36897179 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Digging this up House of Lords have just defeated the Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formatzero Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 The Lords are showboating,trying to convince us we get something from this old boys club ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_bandido Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 No, they are trying to amend it with some protections for EU citizens currently living in the UK, i.e - guarantee them the same rights of residence they have now. That's not showboating, that's their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hopefully and rightfully, Parliament will reject the Lords ammendments and kick it back up. I don't see why we should guarantee EU nationals security in the UK without a reciprocal agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Digging this up House of Lords have just defeated the Government. Not really. House of Lords can't stop anything, they can only delay or ask for amendments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 UK government should have protected EU citizens rights straight away. It's not a bargaining chip, and shouldn't have to wait till negotiations start to bring it up. Be the bigger person and sort it already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabella Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 UK government should have protected EU citizens rights straight away. It's not a bargaining chip, and shouldn't have to wait till negotiations start to bring it up. Be the bigger person and sort it already Heart says your right, but I can see if we guaranteed it before negotiations it maybe one used against us during negotiations the other way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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