SteveC Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Well if you said that Mr Juncker, thank you. You've proved what many of us have been saying all along - there's no further reformation of the EU as far as the UK is concerned, and Cameron is a lying b******. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Well if you said that Mr Juncker, thank you. You've proved what many of us have been saying all along - there's no further reformation of the EU as far as the UK is concerned, and Cameron is a lying b******. Not just Cameron, but Corbyn, Sturgeon, the Blairites of the PLP, Caroline Lucas, Tim Farron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Not just Cameron, but Corbyn, Sturgeon, the Blairites of the PLP, Caroline Lucas, Tim Farron. Quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 One common theme that seems to be cropping up more and more, is the disconnect between the voting electorate, and the MP's that represent them in parliament. Very roughly speaking, 50%ish of the electorate want Brexit, and 50% want remain. So why is it that 75% of the MP's want to remain? And why is it that, with the polls indicating that possibly 40%-50% of Labour voters *may* vote to Leave, why does only circa 5% of the Labour MP's support Leave? That tells me that MP's, especially Labour, Lib Dem and SNP MP's, are more concerned with 'toeing the party line' than representing their constituents. This is simply unacceptable for a so called democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 That's a fantastic point, Jay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I hate to say it but I've said this for years now. We don't have a "Real" democracy. It's been going this way for a long time now. Not to mention how corrupt it all is. How many politicians have vested interests in certain policies or certain government investments. I can bet some of their own companies or companies they're associated with are benefitting greatly, especially the last 10-20 years. Are those the sorts we want running our country and handling our tax money? Leaving the EU is just the start. We've got a long way to go even if we do manage to leave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 What most people fail to grasp, especially those who vote but really don't know the first thing about politics, is exactly what is at stake here. Peace in Europe wasn't a direct result of NATO, and certainly not the EU, but of Democracy. The whole idea of democracy is that it allows people with opposing views to conduct their ideological battles with words. If you take away democracy, people are forced to fight their corner in the only other way we know how - violence. Case in point: Turkey. Democracy starts disappearing, what fills the void? Violence. Egypt? Violence. Look at the violent riots in France too, a symptom of democracy being crushed. I wish people really understood what a gift democracy is, and the horrors that predictably lurk around the corner if the EU refuses to reform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I hate to say it but I've said this for years now. We don't have a "Real" democracy. It's been going this way for a long time now. Not to mention how corrupt it all is. How many politicians have vested interests in certain policies or certain government investments. I can bet some of their own companies or companies they're associated with are benefitting greatly, especially the last 10-20 years. We have it much better than most other western & southern european countries, I can only imagine what it must be like in the eastern block and the new 5 that are in the queue of joining (including Turkey). Sure we have a way to improve but improve we may once we are out of the EU - staying in and what little we have will wither away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I mentioned a poll in the Lancashire Evening Post yesterday. The final result out of 1498 votes: In - 39% Out - 61% http://www.lep.co.uk/news/poll-results-lancashire-votes-to-leave-the-eu-1-7976722 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Juncker making threats as usual. Surely this sort of threat to the British people should mean a guaranteed leave? How can you cower back after that! The EU is Anakin: Geeky but made me chuckle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 One common theme that seems to be cropping up more and more, is the disconnect between the voting electorate, and the MP's that represent them in parliament. Very roughly speaking, 50%ish of the electorate want Brexit, and 50% want remain. So why is it that 75% of the MP's want to remain? And why is it that, with the polls indicating that possibly 40%-50% of Labour voters *may* vote to Leave, why does only circa 5% of the Labour MP's support Leave? That tells me that MPs, especially Labour, Lib Dem and SNP MP's, are more concerned with 'toeing the party line' than representing their constituents. This is simply unacceptable for a so called democracy. This is not the case in Scotland, the SNP have stood on a pro EU ticket on both the Westminster elections of 2015 and the Scottish Parliament elections this year and the polls are predicting almost two thirds of Scots voting for remain. I would suggest that they are representing their constituents in this case. The bookies still have Remain to win, so I'd be very surprised if they get it wrong in a two horse race! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 This is not the case in Scotland, the SNP have stood on a pro EU ticket on both the Westminster elections of 2015 and the Scottish Parliament elections this year and the polls are predicting almost two thirds of Scots voting for remain. I would suggest that they are representing their constituents in this case. The bookies still have Remain to win, so I'd be very surprised if they get it wrong in a two horse race! We're talking specifically about their position on the EU. I bet the percentage of SNP voters that want to leave the EU is double the percentage of SNP MP'S. In a democracy, elected representatives are supposed to present the views of the constituents to the parliament, not tell them what they think is best for them. This is why there's so much disillusionment with British politics. SNP MP'S are every bit as guilty of putting party before people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 You really need to stop guessing about the political situation in Scotland, you are way off the mark, stick with what you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 So you're saying, without much doubt, that the percentage of SNP voters who support leave will be roughly equivalent to the number of SNP MP'S? Or are ypu saying that elected representatives shouldn't represent the view of their constituents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Perhaps you didn't know that there are no Brexit supporting MPs in Scotland, of any party! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Perhaps you didn't know that there are no Brexit supporting MPs in Scotland, of any party! Would you say that is down to fear of not getting another Scottish referendum? As the way I see it you have more chance of getting a yes vote if we are still in the EU than a no vote if we leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Perhaps you didn't know that there are no Brexit supporting MPs in Scotland, of any party! This makes no sense, why would the scots vote for independence and then say no we want an EU where we have no say?! That literally makes no sense. Surely all those scots should want out of the EU so they can have another independence vote? being in the EU as the UK is bad enough but being in the EU separate we will be pathetic. I don't think the people voting remain understand how the world works at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 He's a Brexit voter https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/north-east/fraserburgh/953478/snp-councillor-declares-brexit/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 He's a Brexit voter https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/north-east/fraserburgh/953478/snp-councillor-declares-brexit/ He's not an MP ( or an MSP) and he will be an independent councillor by the end of the week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 He's a Brexit voter https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/north-east/fraserburgh/953478/snp-councillor-declares-brexit/ Good man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 This makes no sense, why would the scots vote for independence and then say no we want an EU where we have no say?! That literally makes no sense. Surely all those scots should want out of the EU so they can have another independence vote? being in the EU as the UK is bad enough but being in the EU separate we will be pathetic. I don't think the people voting remain understand how the world works at all. What can I say, membership of the EU is seen as more beneficial to Scotland than membership of the UK. As I sit here in Denmark, in a country with a similar population to Scotland, I'm very impressed at the way the country and it's infrastructure is light years ahead of the crap that we are forced to put up with at home....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 What can I say, membership of the EU is seen as more beneficial to Scotland than membership of the UK. As I sit here in Denmark, in a country with a similar population to Scotland, I'm very impressed at the way the country and it's infrastructure is light years ahead of the crap that we are forced to put up with at home....... Tell me how it makes sense? I totally agree that Westminister isn't fair on Scotland, guess what, we hate them too. The people need to stand together against these sorts, not fight and jump in bed with even worse unelected leaders. Juncker and co have said they are against democracy, many a time, openly. That's scary. One day I hope the Scottish people realise that were not against each other just against dictatorships Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 What can I say, membership of the EU is seen as more beneficial to Scotland than membership of the UK. I think that's slightly misleading, if not spurious use of statistics BTW, did Sturgeon ever state that she would oppose Osbornes punishment budget? Given the SNP's anti austerity position, I was surprised that over 60 Tories, Labour, UKIP and the LibDems all opposed it immediately, and Sturgeon was noticeable by her absence . It also strikes me as rather odd that the SNP support EU membership, when the EU is the greatest proponent of austerity economics in the world. Then again, the EU was the child of Jean Monnet, a puppet of the Rothschild dynasty, so it's neoliberal agenda was always to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 This sums up the Scotland situation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formatzero Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Be glad when its all over,stopped watching the news altogether as I'm so sick of being told what to think,particularly from Gordon Brown,the man who left the country on it,s arse ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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