Europe

[Chris Wilson]

Miranda Grell, just your average member of the public asking an innocent question.....

 

Be sure to red the small print under the pink ringed text, too. Unbelievable!

[Wez]

Miranda Grell, just your average member of the public asking an innocent question.....

 

I have not watched the debate yet, I prob wont bother, some of the other TV debates have be shown up to have plants also, its all got a bit desperate

[imi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyJB6OuLnvg

[scott.wild]

So the Remain campaign believes that if we leave the EU all our trade deals will disappear, we will lose control of immigration and lose control of a majority (sarcasm) vote at the table and Britain as a country will not be able to function.

Are they really saying that the elected members of the UK parliament, voted by the UK people cannot run a country, if that is true then we replace our government.

The MP's we voted for can start working hard for the UK people and start negotiating the new deals it is after all simply their jobs.

Should Turkey be allowed to join the EU? why not (as long as they abide by EU rules) Remain campaign say we are all better off together so we should want Turkey to be part of that togetherness, surely if it is good enough for the UK then it is good enough for everyone else.

Leave campaign are being pushed to make guarantees about the future by the Remain campaign- none of them can make guarantees because that is just how the future is. What the Leave campaign can guarantee is the outside of EU the elected MP's of the UK will be able to set numbers, targets, plans and forecasts for all sorts of things such as immigration/migration, travel, taxes, schools, hospitals, police, trade deals, foreign aid. Planning is far better than aimlessly drifting within the confines of the EU.

Are we really saying that the remaining countries of the EU will refuse to deal with the UK when we import more from the EU than we export to it? - doesn't make good business sense does it.

If we vote Remain then let's go all in, let's surrender any remaining British sovereignty, switch to the Euro, have all rights, laws, powers, control, planning and taxing controlled by the EU, after all we would have 1 seat at a very large table to be able to vote on these decisions.

 

Vote LEAVE on Thursday and make Friday become the UK Independence Day....

[j_jza80]

Some enlightening words from one of the 5 EU Presidents, Jean Claude Juncker;

 

“Too many politicians are listening exclusively to their national opinion. And if you are listening to your national opinion you are not developing what should be a common European sense and a feeling of the need to put together efforts. We have too many part-time Europeans.”

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/05/prime-ministers-listen-too-much-to-voters-complains-eus-juncker/

[Al Massey]

People keep going about us having a veto on Turkey.

 

Yet last night on the debate when the leave side said that Cameron still refuses to answer if he will actually use his veto, the remain side remained quiet.

 

Just because we have a veto doesn't mean we will use it, and we all know Cameron is an advocate of turkey joining the eu

[Rajinder]

Just after news night on BBC 2 after the debate the advisor to the President of Turkey tore the credibility of David Cameron to bits. Insinuating DC is the biggest liar on earth.

How he can show his face this morning is beyond me.

[stevie_b]

What the Leave campaign can guarantee is the outside of EU the elected MP's of the UK will be able to set numbers, targets, plans and forecasts for all sorts of things such as immigration/migration, travel, taxes, schools, hospitals, police, trade deals, foreign aid. Planning is far better than aimlessly drifting within the confines of the EU.

Our MPs can already do most of these things, can't they?

Immigration - there are EU rules we have to abide by if we stay in the EU. But if we leave, it's extremely likely the EU will insist we have free movement of people between the UK and the EU anyway, in return for untariffed access to the single market.

Travel, schools, hospitals, police - how does the EU impose their controls on us for these things? Are you blaming the EU for issues that can be (but haven't been) addressed by our MPs?

 

All these hospitals and schools that I keep reading about (in Leave flyers) we'll be able to build if we leave the EU and stop coughing up our £170m/week in EU fees (after rebates etc). £170m (= £8.8bn/year) is 0.5% of the UK's GDP. Will that make enough difference to build these hospitals?

 

Some enlightening words from one of the 5 EU Presidents, Jean Claude Juncker;

 

“Too many politicians are listening exclusively to their national opinion. And if you are listening to your national opinion you are not developing what should be a common European sense and a feeling of the need to put together efforts. We have too many part-time Europeans.”

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/05/prime-ministers-listen-too-much-to-voters-complains-eus-juncker/

 

That's uncomfortable reading. He's one of the many things I don't like about the EU. But Juncker isn't the EU, and I am convinced the UK won't be pushed into joining the single currency.

[JasonR24]

Juncker is a fifth of the EU and the rest agree with him. The EU will do what it pleases and the U.K. Will do as it's told. Cameron is a proven liar and a whore. He whores himself out to Brussels. News night proved enlightening showing how much of a liar Cameron is. Turkey even admitted it!

 

The difference is the EU is losing BILLIONS of euros and most goes un investigated... Which is all the more reason to leave.

 

 

 

 

[j_jza80]

Our MPs can already do most of these things, can't they?

Immigration - there are EU rules we have to abide by if we stay in the EU. But if we leave, it's extremely likely the EU will insist we have free movement of people between the UK and the EU anyway, in return for untariffed access to the single market.

Travel, schools, hospitals, police - how does the EU impose their controls on us for these things? Are you blaming the EU for issues that can be (but haven't been) addressed by our MPs?

 

All these hospitals and schools that I keep reading about (in Leave flyers) we'll be able to build if we leave the EU and stop coughing up our £170m/week in EU fees (after rebates etc). £170m (= £8.8bn/year) is 0.5% of the UK's GDP. Will that make enough difference to build these hospitals?

 

 

 

That's uncomfortable reading. He's one of the many things I don't like about the EU. But Juncker isn't the EU, and I am convinced the UK won't be pushed into joining the single currency.

 

He isn't alone though. But just listen to the sort of language that comes from the likes of Juncker, Verhofstadt, Merkel etc. They make no attempt to hide their desire of a United States of Europe, an EU Army etc. Verhofstadt is even on video recently saying that we should disband our worldwide diplomatic services / embassies and hand control of that over to the EU.

 

These people, who have do democratic accountability to the electorates of Europe, are dangerous. They think that true democracy is nothing but a hindrance to their ultimate goal.

[Al Massey]

Our MPs can already do most of these things, can't they?

Immigration - there are EU rules we have to abide by if we stay in the EU. But if we leave, it's extremely likely the EU will insist we have free movement of people between the UK and the EU anyway, in return for untariffed access to the single market.

Travel, schools, hospitals, police - how does the EU impose their controls on us for these things? Are you blaming the EU for issues that can be (but haven't been) addressed by our MPs?

 

All these hospitals and schools that I keep reading about (in Leave flyers) we'll be able to build if we leave the EU and stop coughing up our £170m/week in EU fees (after rebates etc). £170m (= £8.8bn/year) is 0.5% of the UK's GDP. Will that make enough difference to build these hospitals?

 

That's uncomfortable reading. He's one of the many things I don't like about the EU. But Juncker isn't the EU, and I am convinced the UK won't be pushed into joining the single currency.

 

VAT is decided by the EU.

We can not change the VAT on products because of the EU.

 

The police, hospitals and schools I am not sure of, will do some digging

[Annabella]

Hi all. Just got back from Corfu, and it's shocking how much money they have had, and the state of the country (island). The greeks I spoke to are talking of 'Our government gets 100 Euros, it spends 200 Euros' meaning they just cannot run a budget. Their infrastructure has had billions and billions and it makes ours look great. And they have a bit of waste problem too, and I mean a problem. There dump is 'full'. They havent collected the household waste for weeks, its piling up on the roadside as if it was some backward state in Africa and it stinks. The government has no money to sort it/pick it up, the solution their thinking of is to pick it up and ship it to a main dump in Athens!

If ever there was an example that the status quo has failed it's this. It doesn't matter how many billions you throw at it this project will not work, imagine Turkey with many more billions thrown at it? It'll be Greece allover.

Oh Corfu is a lovely place btw, their government just needed to have listened to the public vote that took place to leave the euro, they might have started on the long road to recovery by now.

[stevie_b]

VAT is decided by the EU.

We can not change the VAT on products because of the EU.

Not quite, see here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36430504

 

The EU specifies a minimum rate of 15% (there are some exceptions that have lower rates, but this is the main one). The UK currently has a VAT rate of 20%, so the UK govt could lower it if they wanted to.

[SteveC]

VAT cannot be reduced on fuel without the agreement of all the other EU members.

[Al Massey]

Not quite, see here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36430504

 

The EU specifies a minimum rate of 15% (there are some exceptions that have lower rates, but this is the main one). The UK currently has a VAT rate of 20%, so the UK govt could lower it if they wanted to.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean the VAT rate, but the products which have or haven't got VAT and what rate they have.

 

Before we joined the EEC, we had a few items VAT exempt, a few items at reduced rates and others at the higher rate.

The agreement for joining was we are not allowed to add any products to lower VAT rates or exempt if it wasn't done before we joined.

 

So the EU dictates our rates on products.

[Tricky-Ricky]

I think the present government are scared stiff of leaving the EU because they will no longer have the big brother EU to blame all their shite policy and pricing on, after all it takes a small army of people to read and work out the mountain of constraining rules and regs of the EU directives we have to abide by, probably save a fortune in wages for the said army.

[johnny g]

The EU knew we were having this referendum when Cameron went to them with his list of requests to change our relationship.

 

 

If they really respected us and our position, they would have done what it took to keep us happy to the point where the British public could look at the referendum and say "Why do we need to leave, we now have the control we wanted over x, y and z, whilst getting the benefits."

 

 

As it was they sent us away with a clipped ear and if we DON'T vote to leave they essentially have us by the balls.

It won't be like the Scottish Referendum where the Government is put under pressure to devolve further powers, it'll be the opposite. A bit like a beaten wife returning to her partner. We surrender our strength by letting them smack us down and yet vote to remain.

[SteveC]

During Cameron's negotiations with the EU for a better deal, both the EU and Cameron were very confident that the British public would vote to remain. This is why Cameron got a worthless deal.

 

They're not so confident now!

[JasonR24]

The EU knew we were having this referendum when Cameron went to them with his list of requests to change our relationship.

 

 

If they really respected us and our position, they would have done what it took to keep us happy to the point where the British public could look at the referendum and say "Why do we need to leave, we now have the control we wanted over x, y and z, whilst getting the benefits."

 

 

As it was they sent us away with a clipped ear and if we DON'T vote to leave they essentially have us by the balls.

It won't be like the Scottish Referendum where the Government is put under pressure to devolve further powers, it'll be the opposite. A bit like a beaten wife returning to her partner. We surrender our strength by letting them smack us down and yet vote to remain.

 

This sums it up nicely. If we vote remain now then this country is screwed. We'll be completely powerless within the EU. People think we can change it from within. Hmm how's that been working out so far lol

 

 

 

[Dnk]

This sums it up nicely. If we vote remain now then this country is screwed. We'll be completely powerless within the EU. People think we can change it from within. Hmm how's that been working out so far lol

 

 

/QUOTE]

 

Agreed

[Dnk]

I'm not sure if its been mentioned yet but what kind of margin is required in this vote for it to be a result ?

[JasonR24]

I'm not sure if its been mentioned yet but what kind of margin is required in this vote for it to be a result ?

 

Simply a majority. One vote could take it

 

Although if it was one vote over for leave you can bet they'd fight it

 

 

 

[AJI]

Immigration - there are EU rules we have to abide by if we stay in the EU. But if we leave, it's extremely likely the EU will insist we have free movement of people between the UK and the EU anyway, in return for untariffed access to the single market.

 

The EU can insist on what they want, if we leave we would be able to create policies that suit the UK. This "access to the single market" title is also over-hyped in my opinion. What does it actually mean in terms of business....well it means that businesses must trade via EU made rules, certain tariffs are reduced whilst other controls are placed in so that EU trade between EU members becomes cheaper than trading with the rest of the world - in theory! ..... but in the modern era, this is not working out as the EU want it. International trade is something that is evolving faster than the EU can legislate for, in those terms many EU businesses may be losing out purely to try an protect the intentions of the EU club.

 

Not having this so called "full access to the single market", may indeed hamper a small amount of businesses that are extensively tied in to such arrangements, BUT the majority of UK businesses do NOT have their primary trade with the EU. Many have no interests in the EU market at all.

On top of this I can't see the likes of Germany wanting to play 'tit-for-tat' politics when it comes to exporting their BMW/Audi/VW/Vauxhall cars to the UK. Cars are a BIG earner for Germany, and the UK car market is very fluid.

 

Not having 'full access to the single market' is not the scariest thing that should be bothering the UK.

The scariest thing for the UK is not having control over our own policies.

[Wez]

Not having 'full access to the single market' is not the scariest thing that should be bothering the UK.

The scariest thing for the UK is not having control over our own policies.

 

Agreed

[j_jza80]

Remain are having a bit of a disaster today.

 

First, the German BDI states that they will not support trade tariffs being put on Britain if we leave:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36596060

 

 

And now, Jean Claude Juncker has stated:

 

"British voters have to know there will be no kind of any negotiation"

 

"we have concluded a deal with the PM - he got the maximum he could receive, and we gave the maximum we could give"

 

 

There go two of Remains most prominent arguments.