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The trouble with polls is often the 'leavers' are more outspoken after all they want a change and to a point to hell with the consequences (not a dig) a lot of the remain are the quieter meek and mild less shouty types, sure some believe in the EU as an entity but lots just want the status quo and we're in so let's er stay in. Will they actually get out and bother to vote to stay in is an issue perhaps, most leaver mentality people I think will definitely make the effort to actually vote.

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On other forums I am repeatedly told there's no fear of the hundreds of thousands of unknowns claiming refuge in Germany at Merkel's calling getting EU citizenship and being free to come over here or wherever else they fancy in the EU. I wrote this, and still await any answer whatsoever...

 

"I am still awaiting a reply from those who repeatedly state that Germany will not give citizenship to the hundreds of thousands of migrants who are there or on their way there. These people say they will not get full German citizenship and EU citizenship, but will instead retain the status of "Refugees" whatever that may infer.

 

My question is what about their children? What will their status be? And will these migrants have the right to bring across "family members" to join them? What will *THEIR* status be?

 

If I am to take the status of these migrants to remain as "refugees" what precedence is there to their ongoing rights and those of their progeny, from the German and EU perspective?"

 


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Just spotted this on the UK Government and Parliament petition website:

 

Allow loud call for prayer (Adhan) in UK mosques

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/132191

 

I hate anything like that. Even churches that ring the bell on a Sunday. There's no need for it at all.

 

I'm not religious I don't get up at midnight and sound a fog horn to let everyone know I'm not religious or the supra out at all times and bouncing off the limiter to call my fellow supra owners to congregate :D

 

Tbh I don't think anything will change for the better. Whatever happens I think it's downhill all the way now.

 

 

 

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The trouble with polls is often the 'leavers' are more outspoken after all they want a change and to a point to hell with the consequences (not a dig) a lot of the remain are the quieter meek and mild less shouty types, sure some believe in the EU as an entity but lots just want the status quo and we're in so let's er stay in. Will they actually get out and bother to vote to stay in is an issue perhaps, most leaver mentality people I think will definitely make the effort to actually vote.

 

That's interesting because my experience is the polar opposite. Those I know in the Remain camp are very out-spoken and Exit-voters far less so.

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That's interesting because my experience is the polar opposite. Those I know in the Remain camp are very out-spoken and Exit-voters far less so.

 

Thinking about it, away from here you are probably right! Face ache is quite vocal re remain on my news feed....

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She could've been a plant! *CYNIC*

She almost certainly was a plant!

 

Regardless of whether or not you liked Nige's poster, or whether you thought one side or the other was using scare tactics, the EU itself hasn't changed over the last few weeks.

 

I expect one or two more 'side changes' may take place over the next day or two.

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The one question I say to those who want to Remain is this (it might well have been mentioned earlier in this tremendous thread): If the pending referendum was for us to join in the EU, rather than leave, would you vote to join?

 

It's a good question, but it needs a complicated answer:

 

We're imagining a hypothetical UK, which until today has not yet joined the EU. If the hypothetical UK economy is like it is today (there are problems, sure, but it's OK depending on the sector you work in), then I would probably vote to remain out of the EU. If the UK was an economic basket case, I'd probably vote to join the EU in the hope that membership would help trade etc.

 

If we're assuming the hypothetical UK is doing as well as (or better than) the real UK of today, then it would mean that my biggest fears about Brexit will not come true. But that's a big assumption. Let's imagine for a moment, an alternative scenario: The UK has never joined the EU, it's once-strong financial services industry has been hollowed out by big companies having moved their European HQs to Frankfurt in the mid-1980s (you can use a Bloomberg terminal from anywhere in the world, and the banks find it cheaper to deal with EU countries by being in an EU country). There is a brain-drain of skilled workers moving to USA and Europe, leaving an ageing population dependent on less and less tax revenues for their pensions. The government has subsidised the coal and steel industries, but cheap imports flooding in from China mean it's cheaper to import it than to make/mine it here. We don't make anything or provide particular services in big enough quantities to make it attractive to export it. We're reliant on trading with mainly France and Germany, but are hampered by tariffs slapped on our goods by the EU, making a lot of things uncompetitive.

How would I vote then? Probably to join the EU.

 

However..... any country wanting to join now, IIRC has to join the single currency as well. So the relationship we've got with the EU at the moment cannot be resurrected. If we leave and have another vote in x years' time to rejoin (something that I maintain is extremely unlikely to happen for 25+ years), it won't be on the same terms as we have now.

 

Joining the single currency is a no-no for me.

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Speaking of £675 million, thats the same amount lost to fraud in the EU during 2015:

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1704623/675m-of-eu-budget-lost-to-fraud-in-2015

 

Heres an interesting article based on factual data as opposed to predictive forecasts:

http://civitas.org.uk/2016/06/15/the-talking-heads-of-the-imf-and-oecd-support-remain-their-databases-dont/

 

 

 

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Heres an interesting article based on factual data as opposed to predictive forecasts:

http://civitas.org.uk/2016/06/15/the-talking-heads-of-the-imf-and-oecd-support-remain-their-databases-dont/

 

The author also wrote "The Eurosceptic's Handbook", and "Myth and Paradox of the Single Market". I wouldn't trust his opinion as being unbiased. THe first thing I do when reading things like this, is try to find out if I'm reading propaganda: scroll to the bottom to see who the author is, or what the website tries to achieve. If I am (from either side, I've got just as little time for Remain propaganda), I take it with a pinch of salt.

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Brits are forking out £675million to help Turks join EU… even while Cameron insists they won’t

 

Turkey was handed £2billion between 2007 and 2013 at today’s exchange rates

 

As revealed in today's papers:

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/131553...sts-they-wont/

 

That doesn't stack up. £2billion over 6 years is £333m per year. That's almost the UK's entire contribution to the EU, before we get any money back in rebates, grants, etc. If this money has been spent on Turkey, then we're not paying anything to keep the rest of the EU going. I doubt that.

 

I think there's a side of this the Sun aren't telling us.

 

The Currant Bun never lets the truth get in the way of a good story. ;)

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Fraud within the EU :

 

This thread made me chuckle

 

---Quote (Originally by ******)---

The EU spends about 6% of its budget on administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union(about 3% on civil servant salaries), and it employs less bureaucrats that some UK councils. I personally think that's pretty reasonable.

---End Quote---

 

---Quote (Originally by @@@@@@@)---

[That's nice - but this is the same administration that cant get its books signed off because there's money missing all over the place.

 

"OLAF is notified of some 12,000 cases of possible fraud every year, and says that it adopts a “zero tolerance” policy towards corruption and fraud in EU institutions. In reality, OLAF must be somewhat more tolerant than “zero” as it investigates only some 200 cases per year – *that is to say 98% of reported cases go un-investigated.*"

 

"This is the most likely explanation of the fact that, since 1999, OLAF has sent only 335 people to jail and recovered only 1.1 Billion Euros of EU money –* less than one-thousandth of the amount unaccounted for*"

 

http://www.richardmilton.net/have-the-eu-accounts-been-signed-off-or-not/

 

 

Also

"in 2015, the amount not signed off by the Court of Auditors was “only” 4.7% of the budget. The problem is that 4.7% of the budget is 6.97 BILLION Euros – enough to build 70 major hospitals or 150 large secondary schools."

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