Europe

[Chris Wilson]

In just 24 hours Italian and other coastguards and vessels, some UK government supplied and manned by UK personnel, claimed to be present to DETER people smuggling, have gone out of their way to "rescue" 2600 migrants, mainly economic, coming across the Mediterranean to Europe, and brought them freely and safely to Italy. So much for the claims migration was a fraction of what it was thanks to the multi billion deal with Turkey to stem the flow. In turn this tenuous deal is at serious risk as Turkey attempt to blackmail the EU in order to gain visa free travel for their citizens. Something our security forces claim is madness.

 

So far from deterring smugglers and economic migrants we (the EU) still operate a free ferry service from international waters to EU countries.

 

The UNHCR are accused of deliberately giving biased information and false hope to economic migrants, encouraging them to make blatantly futile asylum requests that clog up the system for months.

 

Little of this is shown on the BBC, Cameron is in fear of direct debate with big gun Leave proponents, is it because his predictions for EU migration are so far off the mark he fears direct questioning over where this is all heading? Estimates of over half a million migrants coming from Libya ALONE this year are being made by EU officials, and are considered very optimistically low.

 

The only countries so far making a proper stance are Macedonia, who are finally seeing the detritus of a squalid illegal camp of violent migrants being removed, and hopefully the huge cost of policing their border, and the closure of a main railway line for months will soon be over. They are a poor country and one can only imagine the economic effects of policing and militarising this long running attempt at breaching their border by illegal migrants has cost them. Then there's Hungary, who have made a firm stance from the start, and shut their ears to the Liberal bleating.

 

Meanwhile the UK tax payer is financing a "Dial a Rescue" from a people smuggler supplied satellite phone exercise that just encourages more and more and more economic migrants to chance their arms in the Med'. Give the migrants enough fuel to get into International waters, a sat' phone and a few numbers and take their dosh, the EU will pick you up and from then on it's milk and honey... What a stout response from the EU.... Pathetic, and they don't even have to look far for how to handle this, Australia has shown the way.

[Wez]

I have reservations on the outcome and who actually got more votes.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Especially when there is a lot of inconsistencies in the results, apparently one town had a voter turnout of 146.9%:

 

http://news.newsdirectory2.com/presidential-election-election-panne-in-austria-city-reached-146-9-percent-participation/

 

Plus, they scrapped a lot of the postal votes(which generally, lean more right wing), I am not one for conspiracies etc, but I have reservations on the outcome and who actually got more votes.

 

 

 

Has that been through Google Translate or something? Have you got a link to the original article please? Thanks.

[Wez]

 

Agreed, well worth a watch

[SteveC]

Jacob Rees-Mogg put all the points across very well, but the result was surprising.

 

Before debate - After debate

 

Remain 71% - 78%

Leave 12% - 17%

Undecided 17% - 3%

 

Fortunately the reverse is the result of virtually every other online poll I've seen - that is, 65 - 80% leave, 35 - 20% remain.

 

It's up to every individual who is eligible to vote, but it baffles me as to why many people at the debate thought being ruled by the EU is a good thing.

[Wez]

Jacob Rees-Mogg put all the points across very well, but the result was surprising.

 

I noticed that too, very odd

[marc_p]

Has that been through Google Translate or something? Have you got a link to the original article please? Thanks.

 

Possibly, I did see the original article, but it wasn't in English, but there is a few news sites reporting on it now, here is the actual data on the governments site:

 

http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at/1605-303.html

 

He's playing it very cleverly though, people always like the underdog:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/24/austria-far-right-freedom-party-cries-foul-presidential-election-defeat

 

 

Just to add, this is Austria, I have no view or interest on who wins, I just don't appreciate skewed elections. I feel this may have been a response to the EU now flexing their power and trying to fire back up the old Soviet Union, EU style:

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/24/eu-vows-use-new-powers-block-elected-far-right-populists-power/

 

I am still baffled, that people can see this and still want to remain, are you guys big fans of Stalin?

[Wez]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3607761/Generals-fight-Brexit-forces-stronger-outside-not-fit-purpose-EU-says-dozen-former-brass.html

[Chris Wilson]

Possibly, I did see the original article, but it wasn't in English, but there is a few news sites reporting on it now, here is the actual data on the governments site:

 

http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at/1605-303.html

 

He's playing it very cleverly though, people always like the underdog:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/24/austria-far-right-freedom-party-cries-foul-presidential-election-defeat

 

 

Just to add, this is Austria, I have no view or interest on who wins, I just don't appreciate skewed elections. I feel this may have been a response to the EU now flexing their power and trying to fire back up the old Soviet Union, EU style:

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/24/eu-vows-use-new-powers-block-elected-far-right-populists-power/

 

I am still baffled, that people can see this and still want to remain, are you guys big fans of Stalin?

 

 

Tower Hamlets to the Sound of Music perhaps? All looks a bit suspect to me!

[j_jza80]

I noticed that too, very odd

 

It was a room full of students, I'm not surprised at all.

[Wez]

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/24/eu-vows-use-new-powers-block-elected-far-right-populists-power/

 

 

That article is damn right scary, so even when the local populous vote for a representative, if the un-elected EU dont agree they can block / remove them

[JasonR24]

Possibly, I did see the original article, but it wasn't in English, but there is a few news sites reporting on it now, here is the actual data on the governments site:

 

http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at/1605-303.html

 

He's playing it very cleverly though, people always like the underdog:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/24/austria-far-right-freedom-party-cries-foul-presidential-election-defeat

 

 

Just to add, this is Austria, I have no view or interest on who wins, I just don't appreciate skewed elections. I feel this may have been a response to the EU now flexing their power and trying to fire back up the old Soviet Union, EU style:

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/24/eu-vows-use-new-powers-block-elected-far-right-populists-power/

 

I am still baffled, that people can see this and still want to remain, are you guys big fans of Stalin?

 

RIP democracy

[marc_p]

That article is damn right scary, so even when the local populous vote for a representative, if the un-elected EU dont agree they can block / remove them

 

What's even more alarming is the news articles that were there about it have just disappeared:

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/juncker-vows-to-block-the-far-right-with-new-powers-nq5r5tnqq

[stevie_b]

What's even more alarming is the news articles that were there about it have just disappeared:

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/juncker-vows-to-block-the-far-right-with-new-powers-nq5r5tnqq

 

Here it is. They've changed the title of the story, and the web link has the title embedded in it.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/juncker-vows-to-use-new-powers-to-block-the-far-right-nq5r5tnqq

[marc_p]

Here it is. They've changed the title of the story, and the web link has the title embedded in it.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/juncker-vows-to-use-new-powers-to-block-the-far-right-nq5r5tnqq

 

tried searching for it but was just finding other stuff.

 

ETA: My original point on the article now it's here, is how do you justify what they call a 'populist' government, it could even extend to centre right, or just any government that disagrees. I mean the definition of populist is someone who acts on behalf of ordinary people, how is that a bad thing? The EU are going full socialist, with too much power and a leader that's placed there by his friends.

[imi]

 

Greece bailout: Eurozone deal unlocks €10.3bn

 

 

Wonder how many others are in the holding pattern to claim bankruptcy - and with the newcomers in the EU - how many more in the pipeline......

[imi]

I noticed that too, very odd

 

They just want everyone to live happily together - as long as they are European - the rest can bugger off.

 

What really surprises me is that labour & their voters are pro-EU when the EU is going to impact the working class in a very painful way.......if they think austerity was bad then wait till they get royally shafted by the EU.

 

If we decide to stay in then I will be looking at securing another nationality as a backup

[Big Supes]

Maybe I need to remove my tinfoil hat, but does anyone else think this is already a done deal? I can't help but think the EU already has control over us and this referendum is merely something for people to hang onto when we are beaten by .5 percent.

[imi]

Maybe I need to remove my tinfoil hat, but does anyone else think this is already a done deal? I can't help but think the EU already has control over us and this referendum is merely something for people to hang onto when we are beaten by .5 percent.

 

Just like what happened in Austria?

 

These folk are very corrupt so anything is possible - even getting paid 400K for doing bugger all....

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9971786/Baroness-Ashton-will-be-paid-400000-by-the-EU-to-do-nothing.html

[TBDevelopments]

Maybe I need to remove my tinfoil hat, but does anyone else think this is already a done deal? I can't help but think the EU already has control over us and this referendum is merely something for people to hang onto when we are beaten by .5 percent.

 

Bet your not far off mate

[j_jza80]

tried searching for it but was just finding other stuff.

 

ETA: My original point on the article now it's here, is how do you justify what they call a 'populist' government, it could even extend to centre right, or just any government that disagrees. I mean the definition of populist is someone who acts on behalf of ordinary people, how is that a bad thing? The EU are going full socialist, with too much power and a leader that's placed there by his friends.

 

There's a full article here for those who can't see the Times: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/24/eu-vows-use-new-powers-block-elected-far-right-populists-power/

 

I find this particularly troubling:

 

However, as of 2014, the Commission was handed a batch of new powers that it could plausibly use to do just this – powers already being mobilised against Poland’s elected, conservative leaders.

 

The Commission can now trigger a “rule of law mechanism” (Article 7 TEU) against nations it perceives as deviating from “the common constitutional traditions of all Member States.” Ultimately, “far-reaching sanctions” can be exerted, and a country can be stripped of all voting rights in the EU and have funding blocked.

 

In January this year, Frans Timmermans, the first ever unelected Commission “vice president,” who is in charge of “human rights,” triggered the mechanism for the first time against Poland’s government which came to power in a record-breaking, landslide election in 2015.

 

If this is correct, it means the EU now has the ability to effectively decide the outcome of elections. It also means that potential political reform can be stopped.

 

*If* this is true, it is potentially terrible.

[Chris Wilson]

How many migrants have Germany processed and physically deported as not meeting refugee or other required status in the last year? And what about other EU countries?

 

Are these figures available, they would show what, if any, determination is being used to sift economic migrants from the genuine refugees?

[Chris Wilson]

Just watching the live broadcast of Mr.Corbyn talking about the EU referendum on the BBC news channel and the red balloons and placards around him kept flickering to a solid Tory blue. Has Boris got another super power up his sleeve? The BBC apologised for the "fault"

[imi]

Just watching the live broadcast of Mr.Corbyn talking about the EU referendum on the BBC news channel and the red balloons and placards around him kept flickering to a solid Tory blue. Has Boris got another super power up his sleeve? The BBC apologised for the "fault"

 

JC looks completely out of his depth...

[Chris Wilson]

JC would be out of his depth at a decent grammar school debating society meeting I'm afraid. Fortunately he's highly unlikely to get to a level where he can be more than a mild embarrassment to the UK.