Europe

[imi]

Don't get me wrong I'm voting out because at the current time it seems like the lesser of two evils. Mark my words though, that even if we manage to get a legitimate vote and it's an "out" result. Something else will happen that means all that extra money ends up in the pockets of Cameron's cronies and co. Instead of the NHS or back into this country. These people are slimy scum. Even as we speak they are breaking the NHS up.

 

why just mention Cameron, you do realise that Jeremy C and his cronies are well and truly behind the EU........suggest there be an equal mention on those twats too.

[JasonR24]

why just mention Cameron, you do realise that Jeremy C and his cronies are well and truly behind the EU........suggest there be an equal mention on those twats too.

 

Totally Agree. Both sides of the same coin. I only say Cameron as he's currently PM and also I really hate his smug face I am well aware it doesn't matter whether they come under the guise of labour or conservative, it doesn't actually change anything

[Al Massey]

Leaving the EU will supposedly make it easier for the government to accept the TTIP deal which will let American companies bid for cheap contracts on our healthcare and education systems. It'll also let companies sue the government if they don't give them those lucrative contracts. The NHS is in danger either way. A crying shame.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

 

TTIP is a trade deal between the EU and the US, so it would be harder for us if we vote out.

Luckily, TTIP is now coming to light via the normal media and people are paying attention, just a shame no one listened months and months ago

[j_jza80]

Leaving the EU will supposedly make it easier for the government to accept the TTIP deal which will let American companies bid for cheap contracts on our healthcare and education systems. It'll also let companies sue the government if they don't give them those lucrative contracts. The NHS is in danger either way. A crying shame.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

 

Obama clearly said that we won't be getting a trade deal any time soon anyway if we leave.

 

Besides, that logic is like staying on the titanic because you don't like the look of the lifeboats.

[johnny g]

Obama clearly said that we won't be getting a trade deal any time soon anyway if we leave.

 

Besides, that logic is like staying on the titanic because you don't like the look of the lifeboats.

Obama, the man who's seeing out his presidency and is largely irrelevant? It's the Republican presumptive nominee we need to deal with.

[j_jza80]

Obama, the man who's seeing out his presidency and is largely irrelevant? It's the Republican presumptive nominee we need to deal with.

 

I don't want a free trade deal with the US or the EU for that matter. The only people who benefit from free trade deals are large multinationals, who often pay little or no tax in this country.

[Big Supes]

Obama clearly said that we won't be getting a trade deal any time soon anyway if we leave.

 

Besides, that logic is like staying on the titanic because you don't like the look of the lifeboats.

 

And Trump said we'll be at the front of the cue for a trade deal if we leave.

 

For the record, I think Trump is an idiot, but there's a real possibility he'll be president.

[AJI]

 

Everyone's asleep now!

 

In fear of creating a huge point by point reply, I guess it comes down to the question of - is it better for the UK taxpayer to be handing all these recurring costs to people in Brussels in order they can then create rules for people back in the UK, or is it better for the UK taxpayer to hand their money to a UK elected body that can address the issues first hand?

 

 

Just a couple of points though.

 

Yes UK people emigrate to better climates in europe, BUT the net immigration is a huge number INTO the UK. Retired people leaving the UK versus younger people immigrating in to the UK that will be competing for jobs and also on top of that producing on average 3+ children (that will also be resident in the UK and who will go on to produce 3+ more children of their own). It won't take long before UK traditional culture and identity is a thing of the past.

Always keep in mind at the same time - the issue is "what is best for the UK?" ... not what is best for France, Spain and Portugal

 

Climate change and green energies - the EU has a large influence from various green parties within member states and this shows heavily when it comes to these policies that are forced up on us here in the UK.

To date, there still isn't any data that demonstrates human CO2 emissions are causing global temp increases. What we [the scientific community - meaning stuff that I've read on the subject coming from published papers, journals and professional commentors] are seeing are the natural variances in land, sea and atmosphere temps that are indeed increasing here and there, in line with the long term trend of coming out of the last ice-age.

What we are NOT seeing is the catastrophic run-a-way temp increases that the Man-Made-Global-Warming-Theory predicted - even after all these years of being told "millions will die" by the likes of Al Gore back in the early 2000's.

 

These EU policies are costing the UK taxpayer billions per year - which will be an increasing yearly cost.

 

Nothing wrong with having sound pollution policies that are tailored for the UK and set by the UK. But still sticking to human CO2 mantra and the old green party line (something that they can not turn away from even when the science clearly shows no link) , is only something that will damage the UK economy.

 

 

We are most likely on opposite sides of the fence with all these subjects but like I mention previously - just look at each issue and think if its best to send money abroad and import foreign made rules - or simply keep the money at home and make our own rules?

[Westcoaster]

 

We are most likely on opposite sides of the fence with all these subjects but like I mention previously - just look at each issue and think if its best to send money abroad and import foreign made rules - or simply keep the money at home and make our own rules?

 

"A directive is a legal act of the European Union, which requires member states to achieve a particular result without dictating the means of achieving that result. It can be distinguished from regulations which are self-executing and do not require any implementing measures."

 

Many of the EU directives are based on existing UK legislation, we gave Europe Health & Safety, we gave them our old British Standard ( the Kite Mark) which is then distributed around Europe ( including us as the originating contributor) as a directive on the 'E' mark.

 

The U.K. can, and does, opt out of EU directives, they do not have to be taken literally. Lazy Westminster politicians complain about EU 'interference' because they don't understand the process, or because it serves their purpose to make it seem as if it isn't their fault that legislation should be enacted, or they choose to pick on one mundane item such as oven gloves, which is in a directive about standards for Personal Protective Equipment for items including life jackets to chainsaw proof work trousers. Who wouldn't want to see such things tightly regulated?

 

I'm not going to contribute to this debate any more, most of the reasons given for wishing to leave the EU have much more to do with dissatisfaction with your own Westminster government and less to do with the EU, there just seems to be too little research for the truth and a great willingness to believe the right wing crap from the London based media.

[Annabella]

Obama the lame duck seeing out his term. Just wheeled in to frighten a certain proportion of the population. Like all the other politicians, celebs they've paid/dragged in to scaremonger and lie to the public, they should all be locked up in the tower and charged with treason.

[Kendo11]

Totally Agree. Both sides of the same coin. I only say Cameron as he's currently PM and also I really hate his smug face [emoji38] I am well aware it doesn't matter whether they come under the guise of labour or conservative, it doesn't actually change anything

Exactly. This illusion of democracy people keep saying we should save is barely worth saving.

 

 

[Kendo11]

Here's an interesting article in terms of global and military power.

 

This actually surprised me.

 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/study-finds-uk-is-second-most-powerful-country-in-the-world/

 

I'd say that's possibly a plus point to the out vote?

 

 

[Chris Wilson]

Austrian election is neck and neck:

 

Direct votes Sunday gave right-winger Norbert Hofer 51.9 percent to 48.1 percent for Alexander Van der Bellen, a Greens politician running as an independent. But final projections that include still-to-be-counted absentee ballots put each at 50 percent with Van der Bellen narrowly ahead.

 

 

Go on Norbert, go on!! Results possibly not finalised until this evening. Le Pen is poised to ignite the French elections soon. Politically exciting times.

[j_jza80]

Tragic is how I'd describe it. That Austria, the birthplace of the most notorious far right tyrant in history, is on the verge of electing one just 75 years after the end of WW2.

 

I don't blame the Austrian people though, desperate people will vote for those they think will best help them. Germany and the EU is to blame for this, and the rise in far right movements across the continent.

[Chris Wilson]

I don't blame the Austrians at all, they must look to defending their country and their way of life and if they see the only route to that is by electing a far right government then so be it. The alternative parties over there seem to have no cogent plan to halt this migration. I am surprised in fact that the far right are not clear and outright victors over there.

[AJI]

How much to the right is "far right" these days?

The goal posts have moved a lot since WWII.

 

Given that the centre-political line is a bit more to the left in Europe, then far right might be equivalent to what the Conservatives are here in the UK ? (Just playing devils advocate here).

 

But it is a sign of what happens when politicians do not take in to account common sense and the public viewpoint.

What seems to happen is a viewpoint that is media lead - I can only guess that politicians are viewing the media and assuming its the same as the public. A mistake that often happens here in the UK.

[David P]

France is getting frisky too. https://www.rt.com/news/343715-eu-collapsing-france-lepen/

[Chris Wilson]

So is Boris, his powers are seemingly on the ascent

 

http://www.chriswilson.tv/boris-j.gif

[Wez]

So is Boris, his powers are seemingly on the ascent

 

http://www.chriswilson.tv/boris-j.gif

 

[Wez]

Austrian election is neck and neck:

 

Not anymore

 

He was ahead, but then the postal vote meant he lost.

[j_jza80]

I'm glad, although I hope the opposition bare in mind what has almost happened, and address people's concerns.

[Wez]

I'm glad, although I hope the opposition bare in mind what has almost happened, and address people's concerns.

 

Looks like he won by only 31K votes out of 4.6m, that is pretty close

[imi]

[Supra Size Me]

So is Boris, his powers are seemingly on the ascent

 

http://www.chriswilson.tv/boris-j.gif

 

I knew it! Our jedi prime minister in waiting will bring balance to the force once more!! If he could just chain lightning Juncker......

[marc_p]

Looks like he won by only 31K votes out of 4.6m, that is pretty close

 

Especially when there is a lot of inconsistencies in the results, apparently one town had a voter turnout of 146.9%:

 

http://news.newsdirectory2.com/presidential-election-election-panne-in-austria-city-reached-146-9-percent-participation/

 

Plus, they scrapped a lot of the postal votes(which generally, lean more right wing), I am not one for conspiracies etc, but I have reservations on the outcome and who actually got more votes.