Europe

[Westcoaster]

The EU have done an amazing job in destroying the Scottish fishing industry - obviously you guys have no control over it as it is all governed by the undemocratically elected Euro-bodies.

 

No, currently Scotland fishery interests in Europe are represented by George Eustace, the tory MP for Cambourne and Redruth - we sure as hell didn't vote for him!

 

The westminster government will not allow representatives of the elected Scottish Government to attend EU meetings on fishing, despite the fact that agriculture and fisheries are devolved matters in Scotland.

 

THe fishing industry was destroyed in the 1970's by Harold Wilson's Labour government, when they capitulated to US and NATO pressure by agreeing to Icelandic demands to exclude UK based trawlers from a 200 mile limit around Iceland. Iceland had threatened to evict the US and NATO forces from Keflavik.

[Westcoaster]

But I find it hard to believe that the Scottish who want freedom don't have an inflated illusion as you wanted independence and think you can work just fine outside of the UK.

 

I'm not going to re-run the arguments as to why Scotland could easily be a viable independent nation, suffice to say that Norway, Finland, Ireland and Slovakia are all similarly sized to Scotland in many measures, and all are successful independent states, some of them without the curse of having some oil!

 

Conversely, it is arrogant to think that we could not be an independent nation. If Scotland joined the EU as an independent nation, our status and representation would increase dramatically.

 

And I'm pretty sure we don't fear others or trading with other nations, since the British empire has been trading with the world longer than most.

 

The 'British Empire'??? I think you'll find that died in 1961! It's now a reminder of colonial oppression and conquests from centuries ago....

[Westcoaster]

Agreed, it would appear there are some that are pushing for independence in Scotland from Britain so they can self govern but then happy for Britain to remain governed by unelected / untouchable folks in Europe, how does that work, sounds like a right stitch up to me, would they then try and join the EU once again losing their governing independence

 

If Scotland did vote for independence I have no issue as along as it included full independence including financial etc.

 

 

Firstly, from a Scottish perspective, we have an un-elected and un-democratic government in Westminster ignoring us for decades - at least in Europe we would have a seat at the table. If you think I'm exaggerating about un-elected representatives, google Viscount Johnny Thurso and see how the un-electable can get to hang on to power in Scottish matters despite being roundly kicked out of office by the electorate. No matter how much you moan about EU bureaucrats, Westminster's rotten practices are far worse!

 

Secondly, we welcome full financial powers, the recent Scotland Act dreamed up by David Cameron stops way short on giving Scotland autonomy in dealing with it's own finances, we want the powers, the tories and Labour voted against amendments to allow full fiscal autonomy - ask yourself why that is?

[Wez]

I thought the SNP currently hold over 50 seats in Westminster?

 

Representation wise your getting a much better deal than some other parties.

[Al Massey]

I'm not going to re-run the arguments as to why Scotland could easily be a viable independent nation, suffice to say that Norway, Finland, Ireland and Slovakia are all similarly sized to Scotland in many measures, and all are successful independent states, some of them without the curse of having some oil!

 

Conversely, it is arrogant to think that we could not be an independent nation. If Scotland joined the EU as an independent nation, our status and representation would increase dramatically.

 

 

 

The 'British Empire'??? I think you'll find that died in 1961! It's now a reminder of colonial oppression and conquests from centuries ago....

 

so Scotland can be independent and work all on its own with a population less than Yorkshire, but the United Kingdom as a whole cant?

 

So if it's arrogant to think that Scotland can't be an independent nation, then it's outright stupid to claim the UK can't.

 

Yeah the British empire is dead now, but it wasn't then, and during those times we traded with the world, and we ran those trade lines.

 

It's arrogant to think that Britain couldn't trade outside of the EU

[imi]

I thought the SNP currently hold over 50 seats in Westminster?

 

Representation wise your getting a much better deal than some other parties.

 

Exactly....the BS that people come up with in order to hoodwink..........well themselves.

[formatzero]

Was just wondering how representative our little poll on here will be,and what the turnout for voting will be.

[JasonR24]

I thought the SNP currently hold over 50 seats in Westminster?

 

Representation wise your getting a much better deal than some other parties.

 

Yea ukip = 3,881,099 votes, 1 seat....

 

What a piss poor system

[Angarak]

Our inflated illusions about our importance on the world is what the remainers are using.

 

They claim that if we remain in the EU, we can change things and we can get a reform...

 

The thing is we have no 'special' status in the EU contrary to what Scamoron and his cronies claim.

 

The UK has so few votes that we can’t block EU laws. We can only rely on having 8 per cent of votes in the Council of Ministers and have less than 10 per cent of the votes in the European Parliament.

 

Politicians have surrendered the UK’s power to veto laws we disagree with , so if the EU decides to introduce a law that will be bad for Britain there is nothing we can do to stop it.

 

 

[Al Massey]

The thing is we have no 'special' status in the EU contrary to what Scamoron and his cronies claim.

 

The UK has so few votes that we can’t block EU laws. We can only rely on having 8 per cent of votes in the Council of Ministers and have less than 10 per cent of the votes in the European Parliament.

 

Politicians have surrendered the UK’s power to veto laws we disagree with , so if the EU decides to introduce a law that will be bad for Britain there is nothing we can do to stop it.

 

/QUOTE]

 

That's my point.

We have no say if we remain in the EU.

[Angarak]

Yeah I knew that Al, I was just expanding on how little influence we have in the EU

 

 

[imi]

Just watched Jeremy paxman on bbc1, who rules us (worth watching - very balanced which is a change for the BBC)

 

if people still think that IN is a better option then they really need to get their head examined....

 

 

 

 

 

[j_jza80]

Yea ukip = 3,881,099 votes, 1 seat....

 

What a piss poor system

 

There are pro's and con's to 'first past the post' and 'proportional representation'. As we have seen during the last few months, a government with a small majority is constantly having to make deals etc, which is very time consuming, and inherently unstable. Parliaments with proportional representation are like that all the time, and tend to be very volatile.

 

Not advocating FPTP, as you have demonstrated it is awful that the SNP can get 50 seats of 2.5m votes, and UKIP 1 from 4m. But if it's any consolation, it is entirely possible that ukip will become the party of opposition at some point, given that they have ousted the other parties from second place all over the country.

[JasonR24]

There are pro's and con's to 'first past the post' and 'proportional representation'. As we have seen during the last few months, a government with a small majority is constantly having to make deals etc, which is very time consuming, and inherently unstable. Parliaments with proportional representation are like that all the time, and tend to be very volatile.

 

Not advocating FPTP, as you have demonstrated it is awful that the SNP can get 50 seats of 2.5m votes, and UKIP 1 from 4m. But if it's any consolation, it is entirely possible that ukip will become the party of opposition at some point, given that they have ousted the other parties from second place all over the country.

 

I know what you're saying but that's near 4 million people that got given the middle finger...

 

Also it's worse than that. SNP actually got 1,454,436 votes....

 

Anyway it's actually quite appropriate because as time goes on the EU is effectively doing the same to the British people. So if we don't leave we will just get the middle finger repeatedly as a nation

[Westcoaster]

I know what you're saying but that's near 4 million people that got given the middle finger...

 

Also it's worse than that. SNP actually got 1,454,436 votes....

 

Very selective use of numbers there, The SNP put up candidates in 59 Scottish constituencies and won 56 of them, which gives an average SNP vote of 50.8% in each constituency it stood in.

 

UKIP stood in 650 English, Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh seats and won one seat and had an average of only 13.8% in each constituency they stood in.

[j_jza80]

Very selective use of numbers there, The SNP put up candidates in 59 Scottish constituencies and won 56 of them, which gives an average SNP vote of 50.8% in each constituency it stood in.

 

UKIP stood in 650 English, Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh seats and won one seat and had an average of only 13.8% in each constituency they stood in.

 

It wasn't that long ago that the SNP occupied the political wilderness. As a party member, I'm sure you know more than most the amount of hard work required to establish yourself in areas dominated by the political establishment.

 

And, the fact that ukip represents us in the EU demonstrates that the average Brit couldn't really care leas about the EU.

[Wez]

Interesting times ahead

 

Germany and France now calling for EU referendums...

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/654175/French-voters-demand-Frexit-EU-referendum-Germany-UK-Brexit

[Pete]

Interesting times ahead

 

Germany and France now calling for EU referendums...

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/654175/French-voters-demand-Frexit-EU-referendum-Germany-UK-Brexit

 

The people of Spain and Italy were wanting it too.

[Westcoaster]

so Scotland can be independent and work all on its own with a population less than Yorkshire, but the United Kingdom as a whole cant?

 

So if it's arrogant to think that Scotland can't be an independent nation, then it's outright stupid to claim the UK can't.

 

Not sure who the 'stupid' comment is aimed at, but who says the UK can't be an independent nation - it patently is!

 

Yeah the British empire is dead now, but it wasn't then, and during those times we traded with the world, and we ran those trade lines.

 

It's arrogant to think that Britain couldn't trade outside of the EU

 

Of course it can, who would say it couldn't?

 

The point is that it will be more bureaucratic to be outside the EU when trading - let me give you an actual example:

 

An acquaintance of mine runs a successful company which catches, sells and distributes shellfish - high value langoustines and crabs. Prior to a harmonisation of EU regulations, he requires to obtain a UK fish export and transport release to load the fresh produce on to his refrigerated trucks;

 

If the shellfish were going to France, he required to get importation certificates, transport certificates and confirmation of quality certificates (in French) faxed from a Scottish local authority's Environmental health department, before he could sell his shellfish. The process was time consuming, laborious, bureaucratic and resulted in him (and his sons!who work with him) to have to learn French!

 

He expanded his business to sell his shellfish in Barcelona. He now had a similar set up with forms, different of course to the French forms, but equally as bureaucratic and time consuming.

 

Fast forward to EU legislation which harmonises the EU single market - he now has one set of forms to complete and exports to France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg and Portugal. You can see for exporters that simplification of paperwork is vital to keeping business costs down.

 

There is an irony that suggests that EU membership causes bureaucracy, when in many cases it has simplified business transactions.

[Westcoaster]

Some examples of EU legislation 'forced' upon us:

 

"Mobile phone tariffs

 

In 2007 the EU set a "eurotariff" price cap on mobile phone roaming charges - the cost of making and receiving phone calls while abroad.

From July 2009 the maximum that home operators may charge customers will be 43 euro cents (£0.40) per minute for outgoing roaming calls and 19 euro cents for incoming calls (both excluding VAT). It is the second such EU-wide drop in the cost of voice calls.

MEPs also voted in April 2009 to cut the cost of texting and using the internet on mobiles abroad. The cap for a "roaming" text will fall to 11 euro cents (10p; 14 US cents), from about 29 cents on average. These EU-wide caps, excluding VAT, will also take effect in July."

 

"Working Time Directive

This longstanding directive stipulates that no employee in the EU should have to work more than an average of 48 hours a week. It also establishes how many breaks they can have and how much holiday they are entitled to - all aimed at preventing exploitation of workers.

The UK government, along with 14 other member states, negotiated an opt-out from the directive. The European Parliament voted in December 2008 to cancel the opt-out, but MEPs' conciliation talks with EU ministers later failed to produce a new deal on the directive. A key sticking point was how to define on-call time - whether it should count as working time.

So the current directive and opt-out remain in force. It is up to the European Commission to decide whether to draft a revised directive. Many argue that a revision is overdue, because several European Court of Justice rulings affect how the directive is implemented.

The UK government, which wants to keep the opt-out, is at odds with a majority of Labour MEPs, who want to scrap it."

 

"Food labelling

 

MEPs approved legislation in 2006 to standardise food product labels to prevent misleading claims. The new rules target the use of health or nutritional claims, such as "low fat", "high fibre" and "helps lower cholesterol".

The legislation bans vague claims for foods, such as "preserves youth", along with slimming or weight control claims and health claims on beverages with more than 1.2% alcohol content."

 

"All-inclusive air fares

 

In July 2008 MEPs voted to make airlines display the taxes and charges that passengers have to pay, to stop the misleading offers of bargain basement flights.

Airlines are now obliged to give comprehensive information on air fares, including on the internet. Parliament widened the pricing transparency to include all flights departing from airports in the EU, regardless of destination."

 

"Reach - chemicals authorisation

 

Reach stands for Registration, Evaluation and Authorisation of Chemicals. The regulation took effect in June 2007, replacing 40 other pieces of legislation. About 30,000 substances will have to be registered with the new Chemical Agency in Helsinki by 2018.

The new law puts the onus on the chemical industry to prove that its products, including those that have been on sale for years, are safe. Previously it was up to the national authorities to prove that a given substance was hazardous. A safety report now has to be drawn up for chemicals produced or imported in quantities of more than one tonne per year."

 

 

Can we see a list of actual legislation which the EU have 'forced' us to take which is not helpful to industry or looks out for the consumer/customer?

[j_jza80]

Why don't you also elaborate on the regulations regarding bananas, olive oil bowls in restaurants, oven gloves, showers, or any of the other ridiculously wasteful EU regulations?

[Westcoaster]

Why don't you also elaborate on the regulations regarding bananas, olive oil bowls in restaurants, oven gloves, showers, or any of the other ridiculously wasteful EU regulations?

 

Enlighten us, quote the directives................

[Al Massey]

Not sure who the 'stupid' comment is aimed at, but who says the UK can't be an independent nation - it patently is!

 

 

 

Of course it can, who would say it couldn't?

 

The point is that it will be more bureaucratic to be outside the EU when trading - let me give you an actual example:

 

An acquaintance of mine runs a successful company which catches, sells and distributes shellfish - high value langoustines and crabs. Prior to a harmonisation of EU regulations, he requires to obtain a UK fish export and transport release to load the fresh produce on to his refrigerated trucks;

 

If the shellfish were going to France, he required to get importation certificates, transport certificates and confirmation of quality certificates (in French) faxed from a Scottish local authority's Environmental health department, before he could sell his shellfish. The process was time consuming, laborious, bureaucratic and resulted in him (and his sons!who work with him) to have to learn French!

 

He expanded his business to sell his shellfish in Barcelona. He now had a similar set up with forms, different of course to the French forms, but equally as bureaucratic and time consuming.

 

Fast forward to EU legislation which harmonises the EU single market - he now has one set of forms to complete and exports to France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg and Portugal. You can see for exporters that simplification of paperwork is vital to keeping business costs down.

 

There is an irony that suggests that EU membership causes bureaucracy, when in many cases it has simplified business transactions.

 

It's the point of the remain campaign, that the UK can not survive outside the EU.

It would cost us too much, we would lose to much.

 

All speculation.

 

Yes the EU has made it easier for some businesses, but the legislations also restrict other businesses, hinders some smaller businesses and protects bigger corporations .

 

I find it funny how it was the big corporations and banks who have signed to remain but many more businesses, small and domestic have signed for exit.

 

So whilst it good for your friend, which is great, it's no so great for others.

 

That's why this referendum comes down to personal choice.

Selfish reasons.

 

Looking out for oneself but not the county as a whole.

 

 

I find it even funnier that when Tories "won" the election there was major uproar, austerity and uncertainty, but most of that has been forgotten about and people praising the Tories and Cameron.

 

I'm out because I'm 100% sure there will not be a reform of the EU.

For that to happen every single state would need to agree.

 

I'm 100% sure that this reform will not help or benefit all states, so why would they agree?

[Kendo11]

Here's the thing.

 

For all the hyperbole, the figures being banded about, the theorising on what might happen, the scaremongering on both sides...

 

Not a lot will change either way.

 

The security issue won't change much, the border situation won't change much, the banana situation won't change much.

 

Do you want a bunch of corrupt, out of touch politicians having free reign over the country - or do you want a bunch of corrupt, out of touch politicians elsewhere also having a say on the country.

 

Do you want a complete and utter buffoon who's many, many screw ups are made out to be just funny little anecdotes to be the leader of our country next time round?

 

Or do you want an unelected group of randomers who live thousands of miles away to instruct us on certain things?

 

Will each household be over £4000 worse off every year? no

 

Will the NHS be millions of pounds wealthier? no

 

Based on the almighty arseholes in both of the official campaigns I'm struggling to see how Joe public is going to decide.

 

Michael Gove or Jeremy Hunt...................

[Westcoaster]

 

That's why this referendum comes down to personal choice.

Selfish reasons.

 

Looking out for oneself but not the county as a whole.

 

Isn't that what a vote is for? You are asked to vote on your own opinion, based on your own knowledge and experience.........

 

I find it even funnier that when Tories "won" the election there was major uproar, austerity and uncertainty, but most of that has been forgotten about and people praising the Tories and Cameron

 

Praising the tories? You need to look at other news sources than the red tops!

 

The major uproar on austerity and uncertainty is still there, but not reported due to the EU referendum