Europe

[Dnk]

I'm voting out. I was undecided at first but the more I hear about it, I can't think of a reason to stay that can't be countered by the BREXIT arguments.

We need to take control of our borders, our immigration policies, our money, etc. Mistakes will be made, but lets make our own and not let Europe make them for us.

 

With regards to the big businesses, I think that this is some scare mongering. The world is very different now from when these agreements/policies were put in place. It needs to complete reform and leaving the EU and re-establishing our own identity is a perfect way to do it on our terms. We're in the G8, and either 5th or 6th in the worlds biggest economies, big businesses need us as much as we need them - all IMO.

 

[David P]

I voted in, purely on Human Rights matters, which will only get worse by coming out.

 

It has taken 10 years to exhaust the Civil Service cover-up "System" and allow engagement of the E.U. Commission of Human Rights.

 

https://www.change.org/p/peter-bone-m-p-david-cameron-mp-public-enquiry-into-civil-service-use-of-hydrogen-sulphide-gas-and-sleep-deprivation-torture

 

I'd now like them to have this chance to put a stop to these covert crimes against humanity.

[stevie_b]

In.

 

Predominantly for trade/economic reasons: specifically ease of trading with the Eurozone. The UK's economy is dominated by the service sector (rightly or wrongly), and financial services in particular. I'm concerned that these kinds of companies would relocate some or all of their activities to the Eurozone if we vote Out.

 

There's a chance that leaving Europe would allow us free reign to make trade deals with countries like China and India. That's what Switzerland has done with China: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35615604.

 

It's a tough one.

[Kendo11]

It's a tough one.

 

It is.

 

Of even greater importance and influence than our general elections I'd say.

 

Whatever decision people come to I'd urge everyone to think about this greatly.

 

(not saying anyone on here won't, I mean in general terms).

[stevie_b]

Whatever decision people come to I'd urge everyone to think about this greatly.

 

(not saying anyone on here won't, I mean in general terms).

Completely agree. It's a concern I have about all referendums. People are easily led, and bulls**t is easily propagated. Not just by the usual suspects of social media either: Boris Johnson, a politician whose persona and gravitas I admire, I think has been using his column in the Telegraph to put forward some half-truths about this subject.

[j_jza80]

Boris Johnson, a politician whose persona and gravitas I admire, I think has been using his column in the Telegraph to put forward some half-truths about this subject.

 

They all do this.

 

Just look at Cameron. "immigration in the tens of thousands. No if's, no but's". Noticed how he's now changed his tune, and won't answer any immigration question directly. I'm sure he's well aware that this migrant benefit limitation will have 0 effect.

 

One thing that none of them are really considering is that, just as with the Scottish referendum before, nothing is being done to address the underlying causes of this EU scepticism. So if we're still in the EU come the next general election, we're going to be back in the same place we were last year. And the Tories will have no choice but to offer another referendum, for fear of loosing critical seats to ukip.

[AJI]

Definite OUT for me.

 

There is a lot of scaremongering in the media at the moment, and it will get worse as we close in on the referendum.

 

Things like France/UK border control. This is not an EU treaty, this is a treaty arranged by France and the UK only. This treaty would only be abolished if either party decided it was not in their best interests to keep it.

This can happen any time whether we are in the EU or not.

 

 

As for EU funding in relation to England, Scotland, Wales and N-Ireland - remember that historically the UK pays OUT more than what it gets in return, in terms of what it costs to be an EU member. This cost is around £55 million PER DAY !

Take a look at this little graph:

https://fullfact.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/EU-budget1.png

The top is what we pay out, the bottom is what we receive back.

 

So even taking in to account the difference between what we pay in to what we receive back it still works out to be around £24 million PER DAY!

 

We are not getting a good deal. What we are doing is funding foreign infrastructure projects within the EU. (Notice how Spain for example has gained a nice new motorway network over the recent decades).

With the EU wishing to further expand in to eastern Europe - you can quickly see how the likes of the UK will be asked for ever more increasing membership funds in order to prop up developing countries.

(Something we already do in our foreign aid budget).

[MaveriK]

I voted in, purely on Human Rights matters, which will only get worse by coming out.

 

It has taken 10 years to exhaust the Civil Service cover-up "System" and allow engagement of the E.U. Commission of Human Rights.

 

https://www.change.org/p/peter-bone-m-p-david-cameron-mp-public-enquiry-into-civil-service-use-of-hydrogen-sulphide-gas-and-sleep-deprivation-torture

 

I'd now like them to have this chance to put a stop to these covert crimes against humanity.

 

Still laughing!!

[Kendo11]

I might be changing my mind...

 

http://newsthump.com/2016/02/23/leading-brexit-campaigners-coincidentally-a-shower-of-cnts/

[supra_ufo]

In

The birds are fitter

[j_jza80]

In

The birds are fitter

 

I think you're confusing the EU with Europe

[David P]

Still laughing!!

 

Would you please explain what you find amusing?

[Jellybean]

Out , Sterling drops and I can get car parts again

[stevie_b]

Out , Sterling drops and I can get car parts again

 

Only short term though, it's the uncertainty that the markets don't like IMO. If they knew what the result would be, they would deal with it.

[walkerstrider]

Out!!!!!!

[Al Massey]

Only short term though, it's the uncertainty that the markets don't like IMO. If they knew what the result would be, they would deal with it.

 

And the pound will rise stronger than anything.

 

We will still be able to trade with European countries because there is no way they will shut us out.

And then we can trade with the whole world.

 

Countries will be lining up to trade with us again

[ianhid]

In for the human rights stuff and easy trade across borders into EU. I know the human rights stuff ties us in some really interesting knots (case in point, Abu Hamza) but it's one of the few things in the way of a full push for 1984 style data collection. I also suspect if we vote out then France and a few others will try to make things very difficult for UK companies selling abroad.

 

I'm not going to be overly upset either way, that's the whole point of a referendum.

[Al Massey]

In for the human rights stuff and easy trade across borders into EU. I know the human rights stuff ties us in some really interesting knots (case in point, Abu Hamza) but it's one of the few things in the way of a full push for 1984 style data collection. I also suspect if we vote out then France and a few others will try to make things very difficult for UK companies selling abroad.

 

I'm not going to be overly upset either way, that's the whole point of a referendum.

 

Don't forget it was the UK that first properly introduced human rights, and was then internationally adopted because of the UN.

 

And leaving the EU will not abolish human rights.

 

France and other countries make a load of money from the UK so why would they cut ties with us?

 

And also we have trade agreements with nearly all EU countries before we joined the EU.

[Kendo11]

Just before anyone mentions human rights...

 

[ATTACH]209512[/ATTACH]

[Al Massey]

Yep, started in England

[Jellybean]

Only short term though, it's the uncertainty that the markets don't like IMO. If they knew what the result would be, they would deal with it.

 

Thats all I need

[ianhid]

I've not forgotten it was the UK that started up the european bill of human rights. The bit I'm wary of is that Cameron/ the Tory party were very recently trying to withdraw from it if they didn't get the option to veto judgements they didn't like. I've got no doubt that the original reason for withdrawing had some uses, it's just I'm very nervous of power creep. You end up with things like councils abusing RIPA and it's really useful to have a binding, non-partisan court to go to for really important cases. It's not entirely clear whether we could legally withdraw from the ECHR and stay in the EU, however that's not a problem if we leave the EU.

 

There is a list of recent cases here http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05611#fullreport - Some of the interesting recent ones are around delayed investigation of death in custody, illegal spying on privileged discussions between defendant and lawyer, and rights of prisoners to vote. They haven't often gone against the UK, usually the court finds in favour of the UK ruling, or at least most of it.

[Dragonball]

In, without EU funding the majority of Wales is f*****. EU money rebuilt half of Cardiff and mos tof South Wales' infrastructure.

 

If we do stay in I want less input of EU laws put onto us though because it's not "one size fits all" for every country. It's ridiculous.

 

EDIT: Ironically I support independence for Scotland and Wales from England however

 

So do I - **** off the lot of you! :-) Miserable whinging bunch of Celts! No seriously - with no rebates and no North Sea oil... it will be England's fault again! No good at Rugby either :-)

 

IN - because although I want to believe in OUT we really have no chance on our own - and anyone still believes in the Empire and a spot of 'Jeruselem's Green and pleasant land' on a Sunday morning needs to wake up and smell the POLSKI SCHLEP!

[Westcoaster]

Definite and unequivocal vote to stay in. The EU is the major (and very willing) recipient of what is grown, fished, brewed and distilled in my part of the world.

 

As an advocate of Scottish independence, it will be intriguing to see the Tories inadvertently break up the United Kingdom when they try to drag Scotland out of the EU, or, more amusingly, if the Scottish vote keeps the UK in!

 

It'll be a sad day when England is an isolated and overcrowded basket case vying to become the 51st US state, what are you going to do when 2.25 million English emigrants return from their homes in the EU?

 

Trade agreements take years, if not decades to set up fairly, so good luck with that.

[Al Massey]

I've not forgotten it was the UK that started up the european bill of human rights. The bit I'm wary of is that Cameron/ the Tory party were very recently trying to withdraw from it if they didn't get the option to veto judgements they didn't like. I've got no doubt that the original reason for withdrawing had some uses, it's just I'm very nervous of power creep. You end up with things like councils abusing RIPA and it's really useful to have a binding, non-partisan court to go to for really important cases. It's not entirely clear whether we could legally withdraw from the ECHR and stay in the EU, however that's not a problem if we leave the EU.

 

There is a list of recent cases here http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05611#fullreport - Some of the interesting recent ones are around delayed investigation of death in custody, illegal spying on privileged discussions between defendant and lawyer, and rights of prisoners to vote. They haven't often gone against the UK, usually the court finds in favour of the UK ruling, or at least most of it.

 

The European court is not the EU court.

Two entirely different entities.

 

And prisoners should have no rights.

They're in prison for a reason