Annabella Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 [ATTACH=CONFIG]211984[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]211985[/ATTACH] Pulling out all the stops now Martin Lewis and Branson, utter speculation and lies, cannot believe this is allowed to be printed and sent out to deliberately mislead and purely speculate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 The London School of Economics??? That hot bed of Trotskyists and activists, I am told they don't throw their mortar boards in the air at the end of their degrees, they throw their Guy Fawkes plastic masks in the air..... As for Karen Brady, she has had the honour of working at the top levels for a pornographer and the likely to be on charges Sir Philip Green.... What a bloody shower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor69 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Well for me the fact that the Tories want us to stay in means that it is probably going to hurt the average man in the street. Yes I know that Labour and the Lib dem's want us to stay in too but still, the Conservatives think its a good thing so I'm OUT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 What is wrong with people, what the hell was he doing here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3597282/Convicted-Polish-rapist-country-two-days-battered-senseless-52-year-old-man-d-never-met-threw-bus.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 What is wrong with people, what the hell was he doing here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3597282/Convicted-Polish-rapist-country-two-days-battered-senseless-52-year-old-man-d-never-met-threw-bus.html 12 years in Prison - can we please bring his family over to the UK too so that he can be made to feel at home here......perhaps release him during the week too so that he doesn't feel segregated from society. on a serious note - with zero border control to the ever expanding EU I am impressed that these sort of situations are not more common.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Well for me the fact that the Tories want us to stay in means that it is probably going to hurt the average man in the street. Yes I know that Labour and the Lib dem's want us to stay in too but still, the Conservatives think its a good thing so I'm OUT. why do you think that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Just out of curiosity from the Scottish members who voted for independence, what is your vote on the UK EU referendum? they'll probably do the opposite of England regardless of the consequences to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Most people I've spoken to, comments on a few forums I read and comments on a few online papers I read seem to favour exiting the EU around 90% to 10%. most of the people that i have spoken to, those that are labour voters are all in......must point out that they are all londoners.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downimpact Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 working in a mid/large organisation I find most people are pro remain actually, certainly senior managers advocating how bad it would be for our business to leave (potentially). When I've voiced my opinion I seem to be significantly in the minority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 The official polls are rigged to show an unbiased view, so when the remain vote wins, no one will suspect a thing. I am starting to think the Scottish vote was rigged. A large number of Scots believe it was and there is still a lingering discontent over the disappearance of many thousands of postal votes..... Just out of curiosity from the Scottish members who voted for independence, what is your vote on the UK EU referendum? Firmly on the remain side, I've given my reasons much earlier in this thread. I don't know anyone under 75 years of age who isn't in the remain camp. But then that's the age group that were most against Scottish Independence.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Firmly on the remain side, I've given my reasons much earlier in this thread. I don't know anyone under 75 years of age who isn't in the remain camp. But then that's the age group that were most against Scottish Independence.... I find this odd, but I'm guessing the Scottish would remain so they could have another referendum and get independence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 I find this odd, but I'm guessing the Scottish would remain so they could have another referendum and get independence? It's more complicated than that... The political landscape is very different in Scotland and have been since the 1980's, add to that the greater acceptance of Europe and the Europeans in Scotland means that there isn't the great fear of Europe and the pervasive 'little Englander' attitude towards the French and Germans. There is also a different attitude amongst individual Scots compared with other parts of the UK, we are accepting of our size and our population and we don't hold inflated illusions about our importance on the world stage - we know who we are! When you have your identity, history and culture secure in your own mind, you don't fear others and are more pragmatic about relations with other nations. Most folks under 75 realise that we trade with Europe on a daily basis and are familiar with European tourists and migrants working here and, are familiar with the globalisation of the world. Given the levels of ignorance and indifference to what happens in Scotland as shown by the BBC and other London based news channels, it's little wonder that there is little understanding of why there are differences in how different parts of the UK will vote in the EU referendum. This 'insularity' of the news output extends to Europe, as very few viewers get properly informed about what is really happening beyond our shores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Face it. We're staying in chaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 why do you think that is? There are two distinctive sides to the Pro-EU/remain camp. Taking the right-wing viewpoint - this has strong ties with big business as the EU provides protectionism that prevents smaller businesses and non-EU businesses from competing with established big players within Europe. The likes of Cameron and Osborn, they have strong connections (financial connections) with big business players within the EU. Not only from a party funding perspective but also on a personal level. It is in their interests to keep EU protectionism for their own financial interests on the main. EU protectionism however is not a good thing. It prevents smaller businesses entering the established markets, prevents competition, prevents new businesses expanding and employing more people, it also keeps in place the big business bosses and allows them to rack up huge salaries and bonuses, etc. etc. One main issue about protectionism is that it also makes established businesses lazy and less competitive on the international stage. Customer service levels fall, products become less value for money.... many other things I could go on about but you get the idea. It's generally counter-productive and only serves a few at the top. Taking the left-wing viewpoint - the EU as an entity is very much left-wing politics made up by influence from some very left wing nations such as France. This will have a roll on effect of filtering/swaying UK politics to the left. This is in the interests of Labour and Lib-Dems and the Greens. So what we have is vested interests from both right and left with very different angels on why they wish to remain. Remaining however, is not a good option on the individual UK citizen point of view. Remaining would effectively remove your democratic vote and assimilate you in to the united states of europe. You will give up your right to exercise democracy as the laws and regulations you will have to abide by come from an unaccountable/unelected regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 I find this odd, but I'm guessing the Scottish would remain so they could have another referendum and get independence? Agreed, it would appear there are some that are pushing for independence in Scotland from Britain so they can self govern but then happy for Britain to remain governed by unelected / untouchable folks in Europe, how does that work, sounds like a right stitch up to me, would they then try and join the EU once again losing their governing independence If Scotland did vote for independence I have no issue as along as it included full independence including financial etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 blah blah blah Remaining however, is not a good option on the individual UK citizen point of view. Remaining would effectively remove your democratic vote and assimilate you in to the united states of europe. You will give up your right to exercise democracy as the laws and regulations you will have to abide by come from an unaccountable/unelected regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 This is the main point I cannot get my head around. We democratically elect a government, yet this government can be overruled by an unelected bunch of bureaucrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 This is the main point I cannot get my head around. We democratically elect a government, yet this government can be overruled by an unelected bunch of bureaucrats. If we allow them to do it of course. Voting OUT would remove the silly situation you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angarak Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Some good faqs on brexit here - http://www.leave.eu/en/faqs/faqanswers And an info graphic on why need to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Most folks under 75 realise that we trade with Europe on a daily basis and are familiar with European tourists and migrants working here and, are familiar with the globalisation of the world. The EU have done an amazing job in destroying the Scottish fishing industry - obviously you guys have no control over it as it is all governed by the undemocratically elected Euro-bodies. I appreciate (sarcastic) the desperate desire to trade with the zero growth trading partner (last 10 years) at the expense of trading with the growing economies of south america, asia and the far east.....not to mention an ever growing zero growth partner - so whatever limited voices you have today will be mere murmurs moving forward. What else have they done for bonny scotland that you guys are so proud of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 It's more complicated than that... The political landscape is very different in Scotland and have been since the 1980's, add to that the greater acceptance of Europe and the Europeans in Scotland means that there isn't the great fear of Europe and the pervasive 'little Englander' attitude towards the French and Germans. There is also a different attitude amongst individual Scots compared with other parts of the UK, we are accepting of our size and our population and we don't hold inflated illusions about our importance on the world stage - we know who we are! When you have your identity, history and culture secure in your own mind, you don't fear others and are more pragmatic about relations with other nations. Most folks under 75 realise that we trade with Europe on a daily basis and are familiar with European tourists and migrants working here and, are familiar with the globalisation of the world. Given the levels of ignorance and indifference to what happens in Scotland as shown by the BBC and other London based news channels, it's little wonder that there is little understanding of why there are differences in how different parts of the UK will vote in the EU referendum. This 'insularity' of the news output extends to Europe, as very few viewers get properly informed about what is really happening beyond our shores Our inflated illusions about our importance on the world is what the remainers are using. They claim that if we remain in the EU, we can change things and we can get a reform. But I find it hard to believe that the Scottish who want freedom don't have an inflated illusion as you wanted independence and think you can work just fine outside of the UK. And I'm pretty sure we don't fear others or trading with other nations, since the British empire has been trading with the world longer than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36331073 it's a shame that the conversation keeping revolving around immigration - "uncontrolled immigration" is what needs to be addressed & exploitation of immigrants should also be tackled. with an open door policy on immigration with the EU the UK is positioned to miss out on bringing in the right talent from outside of the EU - which again puts us at a disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Face it. We're staying in chaps. Unless it's decided on who has the best memes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 This is the main point I cannot get my head around. We democratically elect a government, yet this government can be overruled by an unelected bunch of bureaucrats. Actually, it's an unelected bunch of Beurocrats, 5 unelected presidents, and an unelected commission Not to mention countless councils, 25,000 corporate lobbyists, and a decent share of ex Goldman sachs employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Actually, it's an unelected bunch of Beurocrats, 5 unelected presidents, and an unelected commission Not to mention countless councils, 25,000 corporate lobbyists, and a decent share of ex Goldman sachs employees. That's why any sane person would be against the EU... And why people like Cameron are all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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