j_jza80 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 There are quite a lot of countries between Germany and the Middle East, all of which have suffered because of Merkel unilateral immigration policy. The Swedes did it too. Merkel also unilaterally made EU policy with Turkey to halt the flow of migrants. Did you vote for Merkel? I know I didn't, yet she can strut her stuff on the international stage, making decisions that affect half a billion people, without consulting other leaders. So it is completely relevant to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Are you being so naive to believe that German chancellor is deciding for 28 countries? How can we discuss things when you are basically making up stuff? Besides you still did not share your opinion about British diplomat suggesting visa free Turkey. We need to underline fact that wave of Syrian immigration without registering is ILLEGAL, it will happen regardless of UK being in or out. Solution is to follow Hungary is help to strengthen EU borders. UK is not part of Schegen and still have powers to stop illegal immigration at their borders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formatzero Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 There is no doubt in my mind that some countries are more equal than others in the E.U. and though Merkel may not call all the shots she does have great influence ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Just wondering how we've managed to keep the pound and whether this would ever be challenged? If you are a remain would you care about ditching the pound and embracing the euro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Are you being so naive to believe that German chancellor is deciding for 28 countries? How can we discuss things when you are basically making up stuff? Besides you still did not share your opinion about British diplomat suggesting visa free Turkey. We need to underline fact that wave of Syrian immigration without registering is ILLEGAL, it will happen regardless of UK being in or out. Solution is to follow Hungary is help to strengthen EU borders. UK is not part of Schegen and still have powers to stop illegal immigration at their borders! I don't remember there being any consultation about the deal Frau Merkel made with Erdogan? And why is the German chancellor even representing the EU in this matter? It isn't her job. From what I can tell, although admittedly figuring out who does what in the EU is a difficult task, it is the responsibility of this person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Representative_of_the_Union_for_Foreign_Affairs_and_Security_Policy I also bet you that a large number of those 30,000 corporate lobbyists who are hosted by the EU represent German industry. Plus, they have the Greatest number of MEP's. Germany most certainly runs the EU show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Just wondering how we've managed to keep the pound and whether this would ever be challenged? If you are a remain would you care about ditching the pound and embracing the euro? Keeping the pound was the one good thing Brown did while Prime Minister. Blair was all for signing us up to the Euro (curiously backed by notorious remain backers, such as Goldman Sachs and Richard Branson). Whether we get forced into the Euro or not depends on two things: Do you trust David Cameron? and what future governments we get. In the extremely unlikely event of a Lib Dem government at some point, we would undoubtedly get signed up. Thankfully, I think the time for us joining the Euro came and passed a long time ago, it would be too toxic for most politicians. Of course, us not joining the Euro, and our reluctance for ever closer union, and the formation of an EU army has lead to us being labelled 'part time Europeans' by people such as that cretin Guy Verhofstadt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natony Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 British conservative and eurosceptic journalist Simon Heffer wrote in the Daily Mail in 2011: "Where Hitler failed by military means to conquer Europe, modern Germans are succeeding through trade and financial discipline. Welcome to the Fourth Reich". This is what a believe the EU is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra Size Me Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Misleading title for the thread!! I thought this was an 80's band appreciation thread Here's my input.... [video=youtube;9jK-NcRmVcw] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 From the Romanian press: http://www.romania-insider.com/romania-may-lose-eu-funds-due-brexit/?utm_source=Romania+Insider+Daily+distribution+list&utm_campaign=1ff95f20a8-RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ece3d6d4cf-1ff95f20a8-405709589&ct=t(RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Just wondering how we've managed to keep the pound and whether this would ever be challenged? If you are a remain would you care about ditching the pound and embracing the euro? I would be completely against ditching the pound, and always have been. I would much prefer the EU reverts back to the EEC type thing it once was (trading partnership, not political union). One size does not fit all, and that especially applies to currencies. If I thought we'd be sucked into a single currency, that would be a deal-breaker for me and I'd move to Camp Brexit. As j_jza80 said, I think the Euro is too toxic for anyone to consider joining it, and will be for maybe 20 years. After that, I trust that people will have long enough memories to remember the recent single currency difficulties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I would be completely against ditching the pound, and always have been. I would much prefer the EU reverts back to the EEC type thing it once was (trading partnership, not political union). One size does not fit all, and that especially applies to currencies. If I thought we'd be sucked into a single currency, that would be a deal-breaker for me and I'd move to Camp Brexit. As j_jza80 said, I think the Euro is too toxic for anyone to consider joining it, and will be for maybe 20 years. After that, I trust that people will have long enough memories to remember the recent single currency difficulties. It will happen. Maybe not next year but it will eventually. It's obvious the goal for a single currency. Makes everything easier, and the more countries the EU brings on board, the more power it has to get things done, like changing our currency. If we stay in the EU, it won't be long till the pound is so weak that we will have no choice but to join the eurozone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 From the Romanian press: http://www.romania-insider.com/romania-may-lose-eu-funds-due-brexit/?utm_source=Romania+Insider+Daily+distribution+list&utm_campaign=1ff95f20a8-RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ece3d6d4cf-1ff95f20a8-405709589&ct=t(RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016) Interesting read, thanks for posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Andrew Neil dispelling a few Remain "facts". Also a good watch to see what an MP totally out of his depth, factually and intellectually looks like https://www.facebook.com/358469527671375/videos/524138537771139/ I am liking Neil more and more, he can cut like a knife without recourse to sarcasm or puerile digs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 The film companies trying to cash in on some free publicity Independence day: Resurgence released on June 24th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I am liking Neil more and more, he can cut like a knife without recourse to sarcasm or puerile digs. He's brutal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 From the Romanian press: http://www.romania-insider.com/romania-may-lose-eu-funds-due-brexit/?utm_source=Romania+Insider+Daily+distribution+list&utm_campaign=1ff95f20a8-RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ece3d6d4cf-1ff95f20a8-405709589&ct=t(RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016) Very interesting to see a view from a totally different perspective, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 From the Romanian press: http://www.romania-insider.com/romania-may-lose-eu-funds-due-brexit/?utm_source=Romania+Insider+Daily+distribution+list&utm_campaign=1ff95f20a8-RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ece3d6d4cf-1ff95f20a8-405709589&ct=t(RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016) All the more reason to leave. It's not our responsibility to hold them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 From the Romanian press: http://www.romania-insider.com/romania-may-lose-eu-funds-due-brexit/?utm_source=Romania+Insider+Daily+distribution+list&utm_campaign=1ff95f20a8-RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ece3d6d4cf-1ff95f20a8-405709589&ct=t(RI_Newsletter_June_14_20166_13_2016) Wow. That's a clear eye opener. Reinforces my belief in voting OUT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 The film companies trying to cash in on some free publicity Independence day: Resurgence released on June 24th I heard the main plot point for that is the referendum. Just for balance even though I'm voting remain - I was speaking with a group of about 15 close friends on the weekend and two thirds are voting leave for various reasons. What's worrying is the reasons are borne out of fiction. I hope whatever way people vote they do so for the right reasons and not because of propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I heard the main plot point for that is the referendum. Just for balance even though I'm voting remain - I was speaking with a group of about 15 close friends on the weekend and two thirds are voting leave for various reasons. What's worrying is the reasons are borne out of fiction. I hope whatever way people vote they do so for the right reasons and not because of propaganda. I would expect a high proportion of people in Lincolnshire to be voting to Leave, Remains strongholds will be in the cities. Whether we like it or not, we're all subject to propaganda. Most sources you get information from will be slanted one way or the other. But I don't see how even a belief or feeling is less relevant to a decision than facts. If someone wants to vote to Leave because they believe in the principle of self determination, that is just as valid as someone voting to remain because GDP may be 5% higher, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I would expect a high proportion of people in Lincolnshire to be voting to Leave, Remains strongholds will be in the cities. Whether we like it or not, we're all subject to propaganda. Most sources you get information from will be slanted one way or the other. But I don't see how even a belief or feeling is less relevant to a decision than facts. If someone wants to vote to Leave because they believe in the principle of self determination, that is just as valid as someone voting to remain because GDP may be 5% higher, IMO. Especially seeing as self governance will be a fact whereas GDP change is pure speculation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I would expect a high proportion of people in Lincolnshire to be voting to Leave, Remains strongholds will be in the cities. Whether we like it or not, we're all subject to propaganda. Most sources you get information from will be slanted one way or the other. Latest figures for the area are 40% remain, 40% leave, and the rest undecided. It varies as you travel through one part of the county to another, much the same as the rest of the country. There are one or two excellent impartial sources of information that critiques both sides of the argument, although emotion and hyperbole seem to have gotten the better of people. But I don't see how even a belief or feeling is less relevant to a decision than facts. If someone wants to vote to Leave because they believe in the principle of self determination, that is just as valid as someone voting to remain because GDP may be 5% higher, IMO. I said fiction and propaganda, not belief and feeling. Being scaremongered into voting for either side as opposed to doing so based on your own principles are two very different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 One such source, for example: https://fullfact.org/europe/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I heard the main plot point for that is the referendum. Just for balance even though I'm voting remain - I was speaking with a group of about 15 close friends on the weekend and two thirds are voting leave for various reasons. What's worrying is the reasons are borne out of fiction. I hope whatever way people vote they do so for the right reasons and not because of propaganda. What are their reasons? I've noticed most people's fears/beliefs are actually stemmed from facts. They may not know the exact facts of both sides of the argument but the belief is there in some form or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 What are their reasons? I've noticed most people's fears/beliefs are actually stemmed from facts. They may not know the exact facts of both sides of the argument but the belief is there in some form or another. Yeah, not the ones I've heard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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