Europe

[j_jza80]

Mind you, any campaign led by Farage, Johnson, Gove and Fox is doomed to failure, whatever it's message.......

 

Curious thing to say, especially considering Leave has lead every poll released since the end of the purdah (propaganda) period, remain is backed by some of the complete slime of humanity (big pharma, Goldman sachs, the Vatican, Tony Blair, and pretty much the global political and economic elites)

 

Then again, it is clear why such people back the EU. It is, by its very nature, a neoliberal political construct, hence the 30,000 corporate lobbyists that are hosted in Brussels. It is also the greatest proponent of austerity economics in the world, and has effectively enabled the German state to asset strip the Greek one.

 

Whatever grand vision the EU may have been created in, it is only causing misery to millions of people across the continent. The treatment of the Greek people is a line in the sand to progressives.

[Kendo11]

Postal vote completed and returned today, so I have voted to remain in the E.U.

 

I had always leaned towards staying in the E.U. and absolutely nothing I have seen, heard or read from the Brexit side has made me think twice about my vote. Mind you, any campaign led by Farage, Johnson, Gove and Fox is doomed to failure, whatever it's message.......

 

I shall now ignore the whole damn thing until the result is announced - ironically, I'll be in Denmark when the voting boothes are open and I doubt I'll be able to get any information whilst abroad, bliss!

 

When Farage is labelled a "hero" by Russian state media, and Johnson is called "charismatic" by the same, you know there's something wrong with the world.

 

 

[Chris Wilson]

When Farage is labelled a "hero" by Russian state media, and Johnson is called "charismatic" by the same, you know there's something wrong with the world.

 

/QUOTE]

 

 

Link please, I like reading Russian views on the referendum

[JasonR24]

Curious thing to say, especially considering Leave has lead every poll released since the end of the purdah (propaganda) period, remain is backed by some of the complete slime of humanity (big pharma, Goldman sachs, the Vatican, Tony Blair, and pretty much the global political and economic elites)

 

Then again, it is clear why such people back the EU. It is, by its very nature, a neoliberal political construct, hence the 30,000 corporate lobbyists that are hosted in Brussels. It is also the greatest proponent of austerity economics in the world, and has effectively enabled the German state to asset strip the Greek one.

 

Whatever grand vision the EU may have been created in, it is only causing misery to millions of people across the continent. The treatment of the Greek people is a line in the sand to progressives.

 

This. For these reasons alone I absolutely cannot see why someone would vote to remain. It's like they want to screw over themselves?

[Kendo11]

Link please, I like reading Russian views on the referendum

Poccnr1, which is "Russia 1". Russian state owned news channel. No link as it's not an article, it was during a broadcast over the weekend. (source, Steve Rosenberg BBC Moscow).

 

Interesting how voter registration changed on Friday which was the same day Facebook put up a reminder to register:

 

[ATTACH]212435[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

[Al Massey]

Poccnr1, which is "Russia 1". Russian state owned news channel. No link as it's not an article, it was during a broadcast over the weekend. (source, Steve Rosenberg BBC Moscow).

 

Interesting how voter registration changed on Friday which was the same day Facebook put up a reminder to register:

 

[ATTACH]212435[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

/QUOTE]

 

I said the other week that this seems a ploy to get more information on people and the public very easily.

[j_jza80]

Poccnr1, which is "Russia 1". Russian state owned news channel. No link as it's not an article, it was during a broadcast over the weekend. (source, Steve Rosenberg BBC Moscow).

 

Interesting how voter registration changed on Friday which was the same day Facebook put up a reminder to register:

 

[ATTACH]212435[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

/QUOTE]

 

If remain win by postal votes, the result will be illegitimate in my eyes.

 

Postal voting is the worst idea ever.

[JasonR24]

If remain win by postal votes, the result will be illegitimate in my eyes.

 

Postal voting is the worst idea ever.

 

Definitely. How I see it is if you don't want to come here to vote then you don't have a say. Postal voting is just another avenue for rigging the vote

 

 

 

[David P]

Ballot bending is like Tesco's, every little helps.

[Chris Wilson]

As I said to the bent manager of a local pub, take car you don't bank the fiddles instead of the takings.

 

What chance the Remainers winning by 107%?

 

To be honest I am regretting not emigrating years ago, the country is a mess and getting worse far

faster than even a pessimist like myself could have imagined.

[imi]

This. For these reasons alone I absolutely cannot see why someone would vote to remain. It's like they want to screw over themselves?

 

indeed - like said earlier - Turkeys voting for Christmas...

[el_bandido]

Is it really that bad though? Britain is quite a nice place to live. The biggest issue I can see is the state of the NHS, which is a lot more to do with the current government attacking it to the point where it seems privatisation is its only remaining option, than anything to do with the EU.

 

Just out of interest, which problem free paradise would you go to, Chris?

[JasonR24]

As I said to the bent manager of a local pub, take car you don't bank the fiddles instead of the takings.

 

What chance the Remainers winning by 107%?

 

To be honest I am regretting not emigrating years ago, the country is a mess and getting worse far

faster than even a pessimist like myself could have imagined.

 

I've looked at New Zealand. However they are much more intelligent over there. You require a degree and to be fully qualified in your field to have a chance. That's why I'm studying for my degree as we speak. I need options just in case this country gets worse.

 

Unfortunately I don't think there is a vast rail network in New Zealand

 

 

 

[jim]

I can see why someone from England would want to vote to exit given the perceived issues around immigration. We don't necessarily have that same problem here in NI in terms of immigration, but what worries me personally is that the English voters (given that there are more of them) will effectively decide the future for the whole of the UK. An exit could have a very significant impact on the NI economy, partly because of our land border with Eire (which has revived many previously failing border towns in particular) and the high proportion/dependency on farming in our local economy.

 

Also, Chris & Jason you're two of my favourite forum members and I find your posts and views entertaining, so please don't fall out with me but wouldn't you emigrating from your home country to another where you think life would be better, be exactly the same thing that you're complaining about happening in England?

 

To be honest I am regretting not emigrating years ago, the country is a mess and getting worse far faster than even a pessimist like myself could have imagined.

I've looked at New Zealand.

[Kendo11]

Is it really that bad though? Britain is quite a nice place to live. The biggest issue I can see is the state of the NHS, which is a lot more to do with the current government attacking it to the point where it seems privatisation is its only remaining option, than anything to do with the EU.

 

Agree.

 

The NHS keeps getting ignored in the eu debate, as well as other important issues.

 

But if there isn't a story about imigruntz takin are jerbs then several newspapers would be out of business

 

 

[Al Massey]

Agree.

 

The NHS keeps getting ignored in the eu debate, as well as other important issues.

 

But if there isn't a story about imigruntz takin are jerbs then several newspapers would be out of business

 

/QUOTE]

 

It does though, brexiters bring it up all the time, remainers claim there isn't a problem.

 

And to be honest, the phrase "immigrants keep taking our jobs" isn't actually that far off.

 

When you consider how many people come here to work, mainly low paid and unskilled workers, who are happy to work for minimum wage, that has a huge affect on the workers here or people looking for work expecting a better or more realistic wage.

 

Mass immigration has had an affect of UK wages.

And people can blame employers and business all they want about exploitation etc, but the fact is that many immigrants come here for the money, to save up then go back home.

 

Our minimum wage is a lot higher than most good paying jobs in many Eastern European countries.

 

But in the uk it's shocking, and you can't live off it.

 

 

Also the argument that immigrants are a massive net provider in tax for the UK is absolute rubbish.

 

I'm willing to bet my life that the majority of low paid, unskilled immigrants are actually more of a drain on our benefit system than they are as a net contributor.

[JasonR24]

I can see why someone from England would want to vote to exit given the perceived issues around immigration. We don't necessarily have that same problem here in NI in terms of immigration, but what worries me personally is that the English voters (given that there are more of them) will effectively decide the future for the whole of the UK. An exit could have a very significant impact on the NI economy, partly because of our land border with Eire (which has revived many previously failing border towns in particular) and the high proportion/dependency on farming in our local economy.

 

Also, Chris & Jason you're two of my favourite forum members and I find your posts and views entertaining, so please don't fall out with me but wouldn't you emigrating from your home country to another where you think life would be better, be exactly the same thing that you're complaining about happening in England?

 

Exactly right the difference is id have something to offer, I'm a qualified engineer and I'll have a degree soon enough.

 

It's pretty much my last resort. Either the UK takes up the same stance as Australia and New Zealand I.e you must have something to offer, actually be qualified or skilled or I may as well leave to go somewhere where skills are recognised because from what I can see you're better off being worthless, doesn't matter what country you're from, but if you've nothing to offer and come to the UK (or are even from here) then you get your life paid for. Or the flip side, you come from a life of privilege then you get tax breaks galore and don't really work either.

 

It seems if you're rich or poor and lazy you get the best breaks.

 

If you're in the middle and work then you're hammered on tax and get no benefit.

 

Seems pretty unfair to me. I'd much rather the UK sorts itself out and stay here but tbh why would the people running the country make the country fairer when they are the ones benefitting.

[imi]

its a shame that immigration has been the headline issue for this referendum - there are so many other more important reasons why we should be out of the EU such as:

 

- Why be part of the loser club - no growth in over 10 years and with the new arrivals in the EU, most of the southern EU countries have youth unemployment rates of 40%+ I doubt there is any growth for the foreseeable future.

- Why hand over our democracy to EU bureaucrats

- Why continue to fund failed & failing countries in the EU

- Why limit ourselves to the EU when the world is such a bigger place.

- The EU are red tape galore and too slow - they stand no chance against the growing economies of the world.

- Why hand a blank bail out cheque for future failed states.

- Why let the EU decide how our 367M per week is spent

- Why should some unelected body set our spending priorities

[el_bandido]

- Why should some unelected body set our spending priorities

 

Source required for this one. Democratically elected MEPs pass (or block) EU legislation in the European Parliament.

[j_jza80]

.

Also, Chris & Jason you're two of my favourite forum members and I find your posts and views entertaining, so please don't fall out with me but wouldn't you emigrating from your home country to another where you think life would be better, be exactly the same thing that you're complaining about happening in England?

 

Ha ha, thanks

 

Just to be clear, I am not anti immigration immigration / migration is great, for us and for other people. Just look at all the amazing business, products, public servants etc we get through migration. So I fully support people being able to come here, and would encourage it - to an extent.

 

Its the completely unmanaged free for all we have now that I am so against.

 

The first issue, is that there is no objective, or target. Without having an idea of how many people may or may not come, it is impossible to plan for. Some people blame the pressures of immigration on the government for not building houses, which is a point. But there is no way, with the best will in the world, that they can build housing for 1/3 million extra people, every year, especially when they have no idea where these people are going.

 

The next issue is the sheer scale of it. Where ate all these extra houses supposed to go? Schools? Hospitals? Roads? Other infrastructure? It is our greenbelt that will bare the brunt of mass immigration, and to me that is simply unacceptable. It seems to me that there are lots of things we need in this country, the one thing we don't need is millions more people.

 

I think the apparent argument that immigration puts our culture at risk is a nonsense, but mass immigration certainly makes integration much more difficult. I don't think being an EU citizens should be an entitlement to live wherever you want, as well as annual quotas on numbers, fairly rigorous background checks should be passed, and language tests should be passed too.

 

I'm not even against the notion of a European Union, of sorts at least, it's just the beurocratic, wasteful, undemocratic, neoliberal racket we have now that I abhor.

[johnny g]

Ha ha, thanks

 

Just to be clear, I am not anti immigration immigration / migration is great, for us and for other people. Just look at all the amazing business, products, public servants etc we get through migration. So I fully support people being able to come here, and would encourage it - to an extent.

 

Its the completely unmanaged free for all we have now that I am so against.

 

The first issue, is that there is no objective, or target. Without having an idea of how many people may or may not come, it is impossible to plan for. Some people blame the pressures of immigration on the government for not building houses, which is a point. But there is no way, with the best will in the world, that they can build housing for 1/3 million extra people, every year, especially when they have no idea where these people are going.

 

The next issue is the sheer scale of it. Where ate all these extra houses supposed to go? Schools? Hospitals? Roads? Other infrastructure? It is our greenbelt that will bare the brunt of mass immigration, and to me that is simply unacceptable. It seems to me that there are lots of things we need in this country, the one thing we don't need is millions more people.

 

I think the apparent argument that immigration puts our culture at risk is a nonsense, but mass immigration certainly makes integration much more difficult. I don't think being an EU citizens should be an entitlement to live wherever you want, as well as annual quotas on numbers, fairly rigorous background checks should be passed, and language tests should be passed too.

 

I'm not even against the notion of a European Union, of sorts at least, it's just the beurocratic, wasteful, undemocratic, neoliberal racket we have now that I abhor.

It's this, 100%.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Great post (again).

[j_jza80]

Source required for this one. Democratically elected MEPs pass (or block) EU legislation in the European Parliament.

 

They only vote on what is put infront of them. The unelected commission are the only ones with the ability to propose or repeal legislation.

 

So while we do get a vote, it's not quite as simple as our parliament. In addition to having no legislative powers, the MEP'S don't even operate in national blocs. They are organised in parties and alliances, so there is no united national voice in the EU parliament.

 

My other problem with the EU is that it pretends to be a trading bloc, yet it behaves like a nation state, even down to having its own anthem. No one has ever voted for this, it has been facilitated by self serving parasites over the decades.

[el_bandido]

That's not true, they have the capability to suggest proposed legislation to the commission. Plus the council that meets 4 times a year is comprised of democratically elected members of constituent states (national representation), with the power to veto.

 

This would probably be a good point to ask you how you feel about the House of Lords in this country? I also don't remember voting for God save the Queen to be our national anthem either. I'd also be very interested to know how many in the exit camp actually turned up to vote for their MEP.

[JasonR24]

That's not true, they have the capability to suggest proposed legislation to the commission. Plus the council that meets 4 times a year is comprised of democratically elected members of constituent states (national representation), with the power to veto.

 

This would probably be a good point to ask you how you feel about the House of Lords in this country? I also don't remember voting for God save the Queen to be our national anthem either. I'd also be very interested to know how many in the exit camp actually turned up to vote for their MEP.

 

Jason is right though, they are organised into parties and follow the party line, there is little opposition between the largest. That's not democracy.

[imi]

This would probably be a good point to ask you how you feel about the House of Lords in this country? I also don't remember voting for God save the Queen to be our national anthem either. I'd also be very interested to know how many in the exit camp actually turned up to vote for their MEP.

 

So according to you two wrongs would make a right??