Al Massey Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Because Scotland would be treated as an equal within the EU, not in a second class manner at present, represented by a political party that has only one MP in Scotland. Scotland's fishing, farming and food sectors are very poorly represented in the EU at present by a combination of English tory MP's and Tory Lords who have no interest or experience of these important Scottish industries. The elected Scottish MP's are prevented from being directly involved in trade negotiations. Better representation in Europe will allow Scotland to grow it's markets there, as high quality food and drink products are exactly what the europeans want. But aren't "English" fishing and farming industry poorly represented in Europe too? It's been on a massive decline for years now. And considering Scottish students get free education, the Scottish get free prescription drugs and the people in England don't isn't exactly treated fairly. And I think it's not just our government that is interfering with trade. Why can't we trade with any country in the world? Why does the unelected EU powers that be allow it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Because Scotland would be treated as an equal within the EU, not in a second class manner at present, represented by a political party that has only one MP in Scotland. Scotland's fishing, farming and food sectors are very poorly represented in the EU at present by a combination of English tory MP's and Tory Lords who have no interest or experience of these important Scottish industries. The elected Scottish MP's are prevented from being directly involved in trade negotiations. Better representation in Europe will allow Scotland to grow it's markets there, as high quality food and drink products are exactly what the europeans want. Scotland wouldn't be an equal at all. The UK is a second rate member of the EU behind Germany, Scotland would have so few MEP's that it would have comparable influence to one of the minor states, due to Scotland's tiny population. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_Parliament By all means be pro EU, but the only way to have any meaningful influence in the EU is to be a part of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Wasn't the Scottish referendum a couple of years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 And considering Scottish students get free education, the Scottish get free prescription drugs and the people in England don't isn't exactly treated fairly. You get the government you voted for, we in Scotland have to rely on our own parliament to control the devolved issues and make the choices that the people in Scotland want. The Scottish Parliament has to balance it's budget every year, not like George Osborne and his obtuse view on how to reduce a deficit by making it many times larger than it was at the start of the "financial crisis'" I can only bring my Scottish based view point to the EU in/Out referendum, if it doesn't match the majority here, so be it. Polls are already showing a greater wish to stay in the EU amongst Scot's voters, but then we do things differently up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Scotland wouldn't be an equal at all. The UK is a second rate member of the EU behind Germany, Scotland would have so few MEP's that it would have comparable influence to one of the minor states, due to Scotland's tiny population. Not so, as the 18th ranked by population, Scotland could expect to have 13 MEP's, rather than the 8 that Westminster has 'allocated' us. Finland has 13 MEP's and has a smaller population than Scotland. All EU nations are equal by treaty and voting rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Compared to how many UK MEP's? 77 vs 13... Germany has 96, and even countries like Bulgaria and Hungary have considerably more than 13. Seemingly, some countries are more "equal" than others. All the power in the EU parliament is through voting blocks. If anything, the Scots have an advantage through the UK, as their MEP's can go into whichever voting blocks they like, and they will also have English, Welsh and Northern Irish MEP's fighting their corner on some legislation. It's a win-win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formatzero Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I,m the opposite side of the Scottish coin as I will be voting out.On independence I voted for it,however I don't want to be part of the E.U. if the U.K comes out,so my vote on independance would change should there be another referendum up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Compared to how many UK MEP's? 77 vs 13... Germany has 96, and even countries like Bulgaria and Hungary have considerably more than 13. Seemingly, some countries are more "equal" than others. All the power in the EU parliament is through voting blocks. If anything, the Scots have an advantage through the UK, as their MEP's can go into whichever voting blocks they like, and they will also have English, Welsh and Northern Irish MEP's fighting their corner on some legislation. It's a win-win Are you changing your position to a yes vote? It seems like you've talked yourself around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You can't and you won't without researching the facts for yourself, gathering evidence, comparing statements, and making your own mind up. Ok so where can I find the documentation of what the terms are ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Are you changing your position to a yes vote? It seems like you've talked yourself around! I am all for some sort of European framework / alliance / partnership. But I look at the current lot, and the way it all works, and it reminds me of FIFA. You have to wonder how someone like Jean Claude Juncker can get to such a lofty position, without doing any sort of public campaigning. It's all done in back room deals and behind closed doors, and although there is widespread desire for reform across the continent, they have no intention of reforming in Brussels. To quote someone who resembles Jean Claude Juncker; "All who gain power are afraid to lose it". I see the way the migration crisis and Euro crisis are evolving, and this seemingly never ending desire to put the power of Europe in to the hands of a few people who have never been elected by anyone outside the EU headquarters, and it fills me with dread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Ok so where can I find the documentation of what the terms are ? Limited official documentation at the moment, remember the vote is a way off and they haven't even announced an official date yet. Come the time there will be enough information out there for you to make a decision on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Come the time there will be enough information out there for you to make a decision on. We'll see During the Scottish referendum, you had one side trying to put the fear of god into Scotts to remain in, and the other side with fantasy land economic 'opinions'. I think if one thing is certain about this referendum, it will be mostly bickering, scaremongering and propaganda, with very little substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Limited official documentation at the moment, remember the vote is a way off and they haven't even announced an official date yet. Come the time there will be enough information out there for you to make a decision on. Total bull $#! t , how the hell can anyone choose if they dont know what they are choosing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I've said it before and I'll say it again. Why is this being rushed and sprung on us so quickly? Why has David Cameron who said if his deal breakers weren't met that he will be voting out changed his mind now that his deal breakers haven't been met? What's up with that? It all sounds so dodgy it's unreal, and it's not even legal?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 19 year old video warning us of the EU https://www.facebook.com/100003662834496/videos/774761325989288/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewysdanny Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 IN ! And the reason being ive driven hgv 1 all over Europe carring every type of product from, hazardous liquids in bulk ( tankers ) , to fresh fish , poultry , lamb etc etc. ( in fridge trailers ) , and all in between .I have witnessed first hand the amount of trade that is exported to Europe , and of course we import a great deal of materials that are brought into the UK not only by foreign drivers , but by British drivers on their return load . Now the amount of UK workers all over Britain that work in industry will see a lowering in wages , as its my opinion that the rest of the EU will look to other countries to supply their needs , thus keeping trade within the boundries of the Eu , which if voted to leave Europe we would lose out in trade and ultimately a loss of UK jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Total bull $#! t , how the hell can anyone choose if they dont know what they are choosing. In which case, go with your gut If you want the status quo, possible economic safety, further integration, and a potential monetary union, vote IN. If you don't like the status quo, and you want to stick one to the establishment, without knowing the economic concequences, vote OUT. I've probably just provided you with more 'facts' than either side will do when the loathsome campaigns start on full blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 IN ! And the reason being ive driven hgv 1 all over Europe carring every type of product from, hazardous liquids in bulk ( tankers ) , to fresh fish , poultry , lamb etc etc. ( in fridge trailers ) , and all in between .I have witnessed first hand the amount of trade that is exported to Europe , and of course we import a great deal of materials that are brought into the UK not only by foreign drivers , but by British drivers on their return load . Now the amount of UK workers all over Britain that work in industry will see a lowering in wages , as its my opinion that the rest of the EU will look to other countries to supply their needs , thus keeping trade within the boundries of the Eu , which if voted to leave Europe we would lose out in trade and ultimately a loss of UK jobs. Isn't our wages rising? Still not as much as other EU countries minimum wage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Total bull $#! t , how the hell can anyone choose if they dont know what they are choosing. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewysdanny Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Well minimum wages are going to rise soon anyway, but what happens when ( if voted out ) we start to lose trade with the rest of the EU, and our exports are affected by our leaving . Will wages rise or fall ? Imo that when we lose that amount of trade to the rest of the EU not only will wages fall but job losses will ensue . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Well minimum wages are going to rise soon anyway, but what happens when ( if voted out ) we start to lose trade with the rest of the EU, and our exports are affected by our leaving . Will wages rise or fall ? Imo that when we lose that amount of trade to the rest of the EU not only will wages fall but job losses will ensue . The thing is, the European industries are going to fight very hard for their governments not to inflict trade tariffs on us. And seeing as we're a bigger economy than Canada, why would they agree to a free trade deal with them without asking them to sacrifice sovereignty, and not us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Well minimum wages are going to rise soon anyway, but what happens when ( if voted out ) we start to lose trade with the rest of the EU, and our exports are affected by our leaving . Will wages rise or fall ? Imo that when we lose that amount of trade to the rest of the EU not only will wages fall but job losses will ensue . I really don't get why anybody thinks this will happen. Why would anyone stop trading with us? It wouldn't do them any good, especially if we are one of the biggest buyers and sellers of products and services. And then we would also be able to buy and sell to anyone in the world. This free trade agreement is only for the EU is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc92 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7213 Some info about what the effects of leaving might be if anyone is interested. It seems to me like the best thing to do is be out of the EU politically but remain in the European Economic Area to keep up trading relations. The full PDF report linked at the bottom is more interesting than the summary on the page, it has some nice statistics and facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a98pmalcolm Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 If only Cameron had the balls to stand up for the UK like this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbJp8zxduWk That's because hes the voice of a leader and no beating around the bush, he says, he does and get it done! Something of which our PM lacks, unless you are a fan of something like Fox hunting.. People will disagree with me but that's why he had over 8 mil votes and I know many people wanted to vote him but votes conservatives just so labor wouldn't win! During the election we always hear how parties will do this.... and make that better, but where would the money come from to do this? Taxes, but they wouldn't say. When Ukip were up and the expenses for the improving services like hospitals ect, Nigel Farage made it clear it would be pulling from the EU is were the money would come from and we will save BILLIONS!! about £118billion per year to be more accurate Out of the EU all way!!! Imagine that £118 billion going into schools and the emergency services, VAT could be lowered which UKIP wanted to do. Lets see Britain somewhat Britain again! And let our leaders decide what is best for the UK not some board of douchbags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Bullitt Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 19 year old video warning us of the EU https://www.facebook.com/100003662834496/videos/774761325989288/ Found this on youtube for those without face ache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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